Fin de Siècle

It’s only one poll, but according to a YouGov poll:

Ukip is now MORE popular than LABOUR:

Nigel Farage gets polls boost as Ukip surges ahead

If they carry on like this, the General Election next year might become a three way fight.

The Lib Dems seem to be completely down and out. I’m an ex Lib-Dem voter. I voted for them year in, year out. I used to vote for them because I thought they stood for classical liberal values, and for democracy. But when in 2006 95% of Lib-Dem MPs voted for the illiberal and undemocratic smoking ban, I stopped voting for them. I’ll never vote for them again.

I think all the mainstream political parties are facing identity crises. There’s very much a sense of fin de siècle in the air, that the old order is disintegrating.

Take the Labour party. It used to be the party of working people. But the current Labour elite have mostly never done any work in their lives. They’ve lost touch with their electorate. As Dick Puddlecote puts it:

White van men up and down the country – whether displaying the cross of St George outside their houses or not – tend to like burgers, beer and baccy. Ed’s party, though, are fiercely opposed to absolutely everything working people like to consume.

They don’t respect the choices of working people, they despise working people because of their choices.

What is the point of working people voting for politicians who actively despise them? And when they see Nigel Farage outside a pub with a pint of beer and a cigarette (and maybe a burger too), won’t they see someone who shares their values, even if he’s a wealthy ex-stockbroker?

The Conservative party has a similar problem. Under David Cameron’s leadership, it has ceased to be conservative. It’s become a progressive, modernising party. Cameron threw his weight behind trendy environmentalism, global warming, and the EU. Is it any wonder if sceptical conservatives began to find UKIP’s anti-EU platform more attractive? As I’ve said before, UKIP now has the policies that the Conservative party ought to have.

Over the next 6 months, if UKIP continues to grow in popularity, the internal stresses in both the Labour and Conservative party look set to rise. They’re both becoming increasingly schizophrenic parties. I won’t be at all surprised if Ed Miliband gets dumped, and replaced by a “representative of working people”. And I won’t be too surprised if the same happens with David Cameron, and he’s replaced by a “eurosceptic conservative”.

But would deserting voters return to them? I’m not sure they would. I wouldn’t go back to the Lib-Dem fold if a true liberal and democrat took over from Nick Clegg. I’ve been far too badly burned. I don’t trust them.

What I want to see is the entire progressive/modernising political class thrown out of office.

By contrast, UKIP doesn’t seem at all schizophrenic (although I’m sure it’s got its own internal tensions). And Nigel Farage always seems cheerful and assured, and someone who knows exactly what he wants. And that in itself is attractive.

And so as the mainstream parties tear themselves apart over the next 6 months, the British people may well end up deciding to vote for the the only party that isn’t. Unless, of course, Nigel Farage gets dumped as well. But that would be the biggest surprise of all. He’s the party’s greatest asset. He more or less is UKIP.

Polly Toynbee rather plaintively says: “The trouble is that the sort of people who vote UKIP… often don’t watch the BBC News, don’t read newspapers that tell them the truth about where the parties stand.” i.e. UKIP voters don’t pay any attention to people like her. Why should they?

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About Frank Davis

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28 Responses to Fin de Siècle

  1. Tom says:

    Polly Toynbee rather plaintively says: “The trouble is that the sort of people who vote UKIP… often don’t watch the BBC News, don’t read newspapers that tell them the truth about where the parties stand.”

    Did the little b*tch come out firmly in favor of smoking bans, put on public display a rabid hatred toward smokers, has she been in dis-favor of allowing people to make their own choices regarding foods, drink, smoke, vape, etc. – and then the little b*tch expects everyone to jump on board and vote for her damned party. I think not either. She and others like her brought it on themselves. May they all rot in hell for what they have done and the pains, misery and deaths they have caused others because of their smug healthist elitist attitudes and never-ending bans, laws and regulations. May they rot in hell and may their counterparts in CA and the US rot, in hell, as well.

    • harleyrider1978 says:

      Applause button has been hit!

    • Rose says:

      I can’t find much on the thoughts of Polly Toynbee, but this would seem indicative of her general attitude.

      Why isn’t New Labour proud to be the nation’s nanny? – 2004
      Polly Toynbee

      “John Reid’s smoking ban is mainly well done. The health secretary could have made it total, but the handful of back-street smoking pubs that don’t even serve a sandwich are unlikely to last long. This is easy to police: every establishment with a kitchen gets health-inspected anyway, so no need for new smoking enforcers.”

      “The Sun said: “A pint and a fag is a man’s right.” But yesterday even its heart wasn’t in fighting the ban: the smoking revolution is here already. Just consider how, not long ago, every desk had a full ashtray, you could smoke in tubes or planes and light up between courses. This near-total ban is just a final push: 70% of smokers want to give up anyway.”
      http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2004/nov/17/society.smoking

  2. harleyrider1978 says:

    TimmyT911 > Jack Listerio • 7 hours ago

    Whose payroll are YOU on, Jack?

    Jack Listerio > TimmyT911 • a minute ago

    U.S.NAVY

    http://www.laramieboomerang.com/articles/2014/11/23/opinion/letters_to_the_editor/doc5471584b57b35708978109.txt

  3. As D.P. says, regarding Ms Thornberry and Labour’s leaked document re. minimum alcohol prices, etc.

    Thornberry did the country a favour by showing that Labour don’t have the first clue about people in general. For Miliband to claim that his party respects the working class – while his party members furiously work to denormalise and outlaw their freedom of choice – is a just a sick joke.

    I used to vote for these muppets! Their ‘morals’ (for want of a better word) are diametrically opposite to mine, although this has become far clearer in more recent years.

    To me, it was a case of black and white; Labour and Tory; us and them. Of course, now I realise it’s them and them, sharing the same ideas because it’s the same people behind the curtain pulling the strings. The ‘us’ in the equation are truly disregarded and despised and only needed on polling days.

    For example, D.P. links to a Guardian article about min. pricing, etc.

    The Conservative party chairman, Grant Shapps, said: “It’s the same old Labour. They claim they are worried about prices – but want to put up the cost of a drink. Not only would that make a drink after work more expensive, it would hit pubs hard, putting many out of business.

    We know that the smoking bans have already done that, but the Tories have exactly the same plan. If memory serves, Cameron’s figure was 45p a unit min. Alex Salmond’s is 50p. Some Labour councilllors in Northumberland got into trouble in 2012 (Salmond’s price hike was supposed to have come into effect in the Spring of 2013, but hasn’t yet) by suggesting that they could profit from this by advertising “booze cruises” by bus obviously, for Scots to benefit from England’s cheaper (but still extortionate) prices.

    And to think that some people say Labour are useless at anything to do with economics.

    Of course, the Tories and Lib Dems were quick to denounce Labour. Probably because they wish they’d thought of it first.

    Some of us have been fortunate in becoming deprogrammed. The smoking ban did it for you, Frank and for me, the realisation that the Labour vs Tory Punch and Judy show is just entertainment for the masses to give the illusion of “democracy” and to have reached an age when I can remember many governments and many characters and their promises of better times if we just trust them with our vote, while life seems to have become increasingly difficult regardless of who’s supposedly in charge.

    There’s a 5½ month race on for more people to become deprogrammed, because another five years of this will possibly finish us off completely. Like the myriad of difficulties encountered with the possibility of Scottish ‘independence’, e.g. splitting the possessions after the divorce (including our overseas possessions – not sure if Salmond wanted Bermuda, Tristan da Cunha, Pitcairn, or what), the same will eventually be true of trying to separate the UK from Brussels.

    Judging by the by-election UKIP nearly took from Labour, we could almost be there. But they’ll no doubt revert to type next year. It should be worth staying up most of the night for.

    As for Ed Miliband. He surely has to go for Labour’s sake. Cameron, I think, will stay, but be very ‘earnestly’ Eurosceptic until he tries to form a new coalition with the SNP, N. Irish parties and five Lib Dem MPs. Lib Dems are probably past caring who leads them. To see their tiny MP tally for the new parliament should be just one of the highlights.

    Last chance saloon for this one-horse country?

  4. wobbler2012 says:

    The problem is UKIP will be lucky to get 10 seats in the election. They are certainly a party I would consider voting for if they provided a clear manifesto and got rid of a few of the loons from their party. Labour are the clearest pro nanny state party by a distance yet working class idiots will still vote for them, it’s like turkeys voting for Christmas.

    And Miliband is a modern day Neil Kinnock, every single picture I see of him he looks like a f**king idiot. I keep thinking of that bacon butty pic. :-(

    • The way voting works out, they could get a huge proportion of the vote, yet only get ten seats or fewer.

      As far as I know they have a clear manifesto. Anyway, Labour went to court, remember, to get the verdict that manifestos aren’t legally binding and they keep bringing in new legislation which weren’t in their manifestos and the EU dictates a lot of the agenda anyway.

      And if you took away the loons from the other parties, how many would be left? Not sure this should be an issue against voting for UKIP when the mainstream parties seem to have more than their share of serious criminals, but the media is mainly concerned with making an issue out of a UKIP tweet or a comment while giving far less coverage (if any) to the likes of the paedophile councillors in the mainstream parties.

    • Frank J says:

      Their strength at the moment lies not in ‘forming’ a Govt. but in the probability of them denying the others from having a clear overall majority. That’s the reason for the concern by both Lab and Tory and why they have to be taken seriously.

  5. Woods42 says:

    “By contrast, UKIP doesn’t seem at all schizophrenic ”
    To be honest they seem way beyond schizophrenic, I see NF as having the job of someone herding cats! But to me that’s the strength and much of the appeal of UKIP – they have room for and respect for mavericks, individuals, people who think outside the box and new ideas. Exactly the things we need to revitalise politics and government.

  6. waltc says:

    OT :China, with 300 million smokers, is catching up to the “liberal” west and now proposing to ban it’s 300 million people from indoors and out.

    http://sinosphere.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/11/25/antismoking-regulations-seek-to-change-face-of-china/?mabReward=RI%3A14&action=click&pgtype=Homepage®ion=CColumn&module=Recommendation&src=rechp&WT.nav=RecEngine&_r=0

    Sorry, should’ve tiny-url’d that but didn’t know it’d be that long.

  7. smokingscot says:

    O/T… on account it cheered me up a lot.

    World’s oldest married couple. He’s 109 and she’s 102.

    “The retired mill worker smokes one cigarette a day before his evening meal and also drinks a tot of whiskey or brandy three to four times a week.”

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2847871/World-s-oldest-couple-combined-age-211-share-birthday.html

    (All the more reason to NOT ban packs of 10 cigarettes; don’t want guys like Karam to have to smoke stale/dry ones).

  8. smokingscot says:

    Re being completely out of touch.

    Does seem to be a bad week for the Tories as well.

    “A millionaire former Cabinet Minister has been branded “pompous” after being caught on tape ranting at a taxi driver, calling him a “smart-arsed little git” and a “sweaty, stupid little shit.””

    As one newspaper said of David Mellor’s rant. It’s Cameron’s “Ed moment”.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/11/25/david-mellor-taxi-driver-_n_6217054.html

    And with rather more bluster comes this headline from a branch of UKIP

    “I’ve been in the Cabinet, I’m an award-winning broadcaster, I’m a QC – you smart-a**** little git’: David Mellor’s incredible f-word rant at taxi driver.”

    http://ukipnorthcornwall.blogspot.com/2014/11/david-mellors-incredible-f-word-rant-at.html

    Truly you couldn’t begin to make this up!

    • nisakiman says:

      Heh! Looks like there was a simultaneous urge in both Lab and Con to press the self-destruct button! Their arrogance knows no bounds.

      “…for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.”

  9. Rose says:

    whether displaying the cross of St George outside their houses or not

    “Asked what he thought when he saw a white van outside a house with flags, Mr Miliband responded: “What goes through my mind is respect. Respect is the basic rule of politics. I’m afraid her tweet conveyed a sense of disrespect.
    “That’s not my view, that’s not Labour’s view, it’s wrong, it never will be our view and that’s why I think it was right she resigned.”

    Race fears spark St. George ban
    2005

    “LONDON, England (CNN) — British prison officers who wore a St. George’s Cross tie-pin have been ticked off by the jails watchdog over concerns about the symbol’s racist connotations.

    The pins showing the English flag — which has often raised hackles due to its connection with the Crusades of the 11th, 12th and 13th centuries — could be “misconstrued,” Chief Inspector of Prisons Anne Owers said in a section on race in a report on a jail in the northern English city of Wakefield.”
    http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/10/04/britain.redcross/

    National flags ban to be lifted
    2006

    “As the World Cup demonstrated, many people want to show their support for their national team and they should be able to do so without fear of prosecution.”

    A Peterborough family fell foul of the regulations during the World Cup when they were threatened with prosecution for flying the cross of St George outside their home.”
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5211952.stm

    2010

    “More than 1,200 workers have been banned from flying England flags on their own cars by managers – over fears they could deemed as racist.

    Employees at the housing association were sent a group e-mail warning that decking out their personal vehicles with the St George’s flags could ‘discriminate’ against those who don’t support England during the World Cup.

    Managers at Bolton At Home in Greater Manchester, which manages 18,200 council houses in Bolton, insist cars owned by their workforce must remain ‘neutral’ in order to treat all its ‘customers with respect and without discrimination’.
    http: //www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1285492/Council-workers-banned-flying-England-flags-OWN-cars.html

    Rural council votes to stop flying flag of St George claiming it is offensive to town’s 16 Muslims because of links to CRUSADES – 2013

    “Radstock in Somerset has a population of 5,620, 16 of them Muslim, census data shows.

    But a Labour councillor said the red and white cross could upset people because of its links to the Crusades.

    Eleanor Jackson, a university lecturer, said: ‘My big problem is it is offensive to some Muslims, but even more that it has been hijacked by the far Right.’

    “Rizwan Ahmed, spokesman for the Bristol Muslim Cultural Society, said: ‘To say that Muslims are offended I don’t think is correct.

    ‘I think if anything this will harm understanding of Muslim people, and it feeds into the ideas that some people have of “Oh, here they go again, pandering to the needs of Muslim people”, when actually it is not offensive.

    ‘I can see why they have done this, but it really is too far.

    ‘They are being overly sensitive, and making assumptions about what Muslims will be offended by.

    ‘In actual fact we are normal people.

    ‘We have a sense of humour and have the same concerns as everyone else – we are not just some single group.’
    http: //www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2324999/Rural-council-stops-flying-flag-St-George-claiming-offensive-Muslims-links-Crusades.html

    “Radstock Town Council is sorry about reports in the media and wishes to clarify that at no point has a decision been taken to lower the St George’s flag. At our April meeting, the council was informed that it does not have a Union Jack and a vote was taken and agreed by all to purchase one.

    “The council did not vote to ban the St George’s flag nor any other flag.

    “The decision taken was made in line with the resources and staffing that we have as a small town council.
    http: //www.westerndailypress.co.uk/Protest-decision-buy-St-George-s-flag-Radstock/story-19020296-detail/story.html

    • harleyrider1978 says:

      No wonder the people are all pissed off the world over! Progressives are at the root of the whole bloody problem top down…………..

  10. harleyrider1978 says:

    ‘Outed by the Piano Man’: Pres. Obama still smoking cigarettes? Bonus: Source is Billy Joel

    Posted at 2:05 pm on November 25, 2014 by Twitchy Staff

    Monica Crowley @MonicaCrowley
    Follow
    Outed by the Piano Man. RT “Source: Billy Joel says Obama invited him for a smoke at White House” http://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/225298-source-billy-joel-says-obama-invited-him-for-a-smoke-at-white#.VHTHxrc1n08.twitter

    12:18 PM – 25 Nov 2014

    Source: Billy Joel says Obama invited him for a smoke at White House

    Joel described the encounter to an ITK spy in downtown Washington.
    The Hill @thehill

    Could it be that President Obama’s long accepted claim that he had stopped smoking cigarettes wasn’t entirely accurate?

    The Hill reports:

    An excerpt:

    Then, Joel remembered another tobacco offer from a high-profile politician. According to our tipster, the 65-year-old entertainer said, “I was at the White House recently, and President Obama did the same thing. He said, ‘I’m going out on the North Portico to have a smoke. Do you want to come with me?”

    Joel said he replied, “Well, I haven’t smoked in a long time,” but indicated that he ultimately couldn’t turn down a cigarette offer from the president.

    ITK checked the official White House visitor records, which show a “William Joel” paid a visit to the executive mansion last December, the same date as the Kennedy Center Honors. Joel was one of last year’s honorees.

    Busted?!?
    http://twitchy.com/2014/11/25/outed-by-the-piano-man-pres-obama-still-smoking-cigarettes-bonus-source-is-billy-joel/

    • harleyrider1978 says:

      What else can be said! I don’t find this being dumped just out of the blue but I find it as a backdoor way of telling us the end is near of anti-tobacco!

      Smoking won’t be banned in public: Council
      BUNDABERG Regional Council has no plans to introduce smoking bans in public places.

      A council spokesman was responding to a parliamentary committee’s recommendation that statewide smoking bans at public transport waiting points and pedestrian malls be implemented.

      Health Minister Lawrence Springborg has backed the recommendation, saying local councils had the power to bring in the smoking bans.

      The spokesman said the council was mindful of community health concerns.

      “Unless there was an overwhelming community desire for bans in specific areas there is little benefit in doing so as enforcement is extremely difficult,” he said.

      But Cancer Council Queensland saw the recommendation as bringing uniform statewide smoke-free spaces one step closer.

      Cancer Council Queensland spokeswoman Katie Clift commended the parliamentary committee for its action to protect the public.

      “Smoke-free spaces will protect people from the harmful effects of smoking, encourage more smokers to quit, and prevent more young people from taking up this lethal habit,” Ms Clift said.

      “Government action on smoking has been strong, but smoke-free spaces are desperately needed, and we have urged the State Government to act quickly.

      “We also welcome the committee’s recommendation that the Department of Health consider extending existing and proposed smoking bans to outdoor areas frequented by the public, including, for example, TAFE colleges.”

      Ms Clift said one in four Queensland cancer deaths were caused by smoking, and smoke-free spaces were urgently needed to curb the death toll.

      “Ten Queenslanders die every day from smoking-related illness and disease,” she said.

      “Around one death a day is caused by second-hand smoke alone.”

      Ms Clift said the majority of Queenslanders supported smoke-free spaces and wanted protection from the lethal effects of smoking.

      There are 500,000 adult smokers in Queensland.
      http://www.news-mail.com.au/news/council-has-no-plans-for-smoke-bans/2463701/#comments

      When even the Nazi’s at the state wont its well and truly over………………Now its up to the politicians to undo the damage!

      • nisakiman says:

        “Around one death a day is caused by second-hand smoke alone.”

        I’d love to see her try to prove that statement. I’ll take a ringside seat, please.

        • carol2000 says:

          Are kidding? All she’d have to do trot out some SAMMEC-type “smoking-attributable” proportion of the relevant number of deaths. You seem to believe that this is an impossible feat for them. Well, it’s not, because this is what they do. And everybody is impressed with them, while you simply look ignorant.

        • nisakiman says:

          Trotting out some ‘SAMMEC-type “smoking-attributable” proportion of the relevant number of deaths’ doesn’t cut it when you’re asked for proof. That works fine for press releases and soundbites, but to actually provide empirical evidence (which is what I was referring to as ‘proof’) would not come so easy. Indeed, I would venture to suggest that it would be impossible,

        • carol2000 says:

          All you’re saying is that you, personally, don’t consider it proof. You probably expect it to be determined in the manner of a murder trial, with a named victim and forensic evidence. Well, that is not how the world works. However, they could probably come up with enough pseudo-scientific drivel to do a snow job that would convince the vast majority, so that silly challenge to “prove it” is just another loaded cigar that would blow up in your face.

  11. beobrigitte says:

    Polly Toynbee
    Who?
    rather plaintively says: “The trouble is that the sort of people who vote UKIP… often don’t watch the BBC News, don’t read newspapers that tell them the truth about where the parties stand.”
    What truth? And WHERE do the parties EXACTLY stand?

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