Coronavirus From Outer Space?

It seems to be generally believed that the new coronavirus came from a Wuhan animal market or a Wuhan laboratory. But there’s also the possibility that it came from outer space.

Professor Chandra Wickramasinghe, of the Cardiff Centre for Astrobiology – a body founded by Cardiff University and the University of Wales College of Medicine – has long held that many plagues have an extraterrestrial origin.

He believes that huge amounts of micro-organisms land on Earth every day, including a tonne of bacteria. Given this, the chances would be that many surprise outbreaks of disease came from space.

Professor Wickramasinghe (who worked with Fred Hoyle) wrote a letter last month to the Lancet:  Coronavirus from space?

The recent paper by Huang et al (1) and the commentary by Cohen in Science (2) highlights many unusual aspects of the outbreak of nCoV-2019. The evidence demonstrates that many cases of disease (about 30% of case reports) arose in locations unconnected with the Wuhan seafood and meat market, and the total tally continues to increase. Phylogenetic analyses of nCov-2019 sequences show little by way of sequence variation thus indicating low mutation rates thus approximating closely to what would be expected for a pure culture (3, 4). This fact combined with epidemiological data points to little or no human-to-human transmission thus far (e.g. see the latest report by the Australian Department of Health, 5). In any case current data suggest that the human-to-human spread rate is unusually low, and may be dependent on proximity and dose of virus delivered at very close quarters. The “lethality” or “death rate” from  his or any other epidemic disease increases in older patients with pre-existing conditions so wider global estimates yield a death rate at 3% of infected. These basic facts now appear agreed.The traditional explanation of the new epidemic of nCoV-2019 that it jumped from bats (possibly via snakes) to humans and then spread by human to human contact mutating at a high rate is thus at odds with the data at present.

Combining all the available facts we cannot rule out a viral in-fall event targeting the Wuhan province and the wider region around it as an explanation as a first cause of the epidemic. This would fit with the admittedly heterodox view of viral pandemics first proposed by Hoyle and Wickramasinghe as far back as 1978 (6, 7, 8, 9). This concept accords with the theory of cosmic biology for which growing evidence have recently been reviewed by Steele et al (10,11). This theory posits a sporadic input of cosmic bacteria and viruses that has the potential to interact with evolving terrestrial life forms.

In the case of the current Corona virus pandemic in China it is interesting to note that an exceptionally bright fireball event was seen on October 11 2019 over Sonjyan City in the Jilin Province of NE China (See Fig.1). It is tempting to speculate that this event had a crucial role to 2 play in what is now unfolding in throughout China. If a fragment of a loosely held carbonaceous meteorite carrying a cargo of viruses/bacteria entered the mesosphere and stratosphere at high speed ~30km/s, its inner core which survived incandescence would have got dispersed in the stratosphere and troposphere. The fall time through the atmosphere of 1-10 micrometre-sized solid particles could range from a few months to well over a year on the basis of straightforward calculations (e.g. in the appendix of ref. 6). Because dispersal at ground level depends on the vagaries of meteorology and precipitation the deposition of virus at ground level is expected to be patchy in regard to both time and place. This is certainly consistent (thus far) with what has happened in relation to the new coronavirus epidemic between November 2019 and the present day (3 February 2020). Following the initial deposition of infective particles in a small localised region (e.g. Wuhan, Hubei province, China) particles that have already become dispersed through over a wider area in the troposphere will fall to ground in a higgledy-piggledy manner and this process could be extended over a typical timescale of 1-2 years until an initial inoculant of the infective agent would be drained. This accords well with many new strains of viruses including influenza that have appeared in recent years (9)

How might an airborne virus spread from an impact site in China? What are the prevailing winds in China?

The prevailing winds blow across southern China from the southeast. Further north they blow in from the west. Cold air pours down from Siberia in the winter. Warm air comes up from Southeast Asia and the South China Sea in the summer.

Wuhan is in central China, so the winds will blow from the west. An airburst over Wuhan (30º N) would result in deposition downwind in South Korea (40º N) and Japan (36º N). Jet stream would then carry it eastward to Seattle (47º N), LA (34º N), New York (41º N). And then eastwards across the Atlantic ocean to Spain (40º N), Italy (42º N).

It would be like a viral Chernobyl. It takes the average 177 kph jet stream about a week to go 30,000 km around the world at latitude 40º N, and countries under the jet stream would receive the highest viral deposition. The polar jet stream  (blue) is most commonly found between latitudes 30° and 60°. And it’s along this corridor that the largest outbreaks seem to be happening.

 

About Frank Davis

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40 Responses to Coronavirus From Outer Space?

  1. roobeedoo2 says:

    ‘Comets, Plagues, Tobacco and the Origin of Life on Earth…

    https://joequinn.net/2012/10/09/comets-plagues-tobacco-and-the-origin-of-life-on-earth/

  2. slugbop007 says:

    Panspermia?

    I was just checking the temperature on the weather site this morning and my link was from Friday, March 6, 2020. At the top of the page the headline read What to do about Eco-Anxiety. A brand new phrase that will most likely be shouted from the rooftops for years to come. Anyone who disagrees will be denounced as an Unmutual, like Number 6 in the Prisoner episode .

    slugbop007

  3. beobrigitte says:

    Professor Chandra Wickramasinghe, of the Cardiff Centre for Astrobiology – a body founded by Cardiff University and the University of Wales College of Medicine – has long held that many plagues have an extraterrestrial origin.
    Sounds really interesting! I’ll put it on my long list for a later time to check out.
    For now I stick with the 2 strains and species jumping as the 3 mutations indicate. (The first mutation enabled it to “dock” and enter via ACE 2). But it’s still early days!
    This is quite an interesting article about it:
    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/03/mutations-can-reveal-how-coronavirus-moves-they-re-easy-overinterpret.

  4. Corina 19 From Outer Space. Hmmm… I think they made a movie outta that….

    Where’s Ed Wood when we need him?

    (Heck, you can KEEP Ed! I want VAMPIRA!)

    :)
    UM, who just got a casting call from Hollywood today! They want me to play the role of that big fat bald cop in the P9 remake!

  5. beobrigitte says:

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
    Italy just clocked in (for those who are interested, other may want to go with “fake”, therefore no breakdown from me); France’s data is still outstanding.

    Finally, a new winner!! (I got terribly bored with the toilet paper panic buying memes)
    When Corona gets me
    I shall visit every tax office near me
    They ALWAYS want half of what I have got.

    • smokingscot says:

      Not sure if you’re picked up on budget changes.

      Fags up by 27p a pack.

      30g rolling tobacco up by 67p

      Arnott’s awful pissed off about this; wants her budget up from £200 to £300 million.

      Forest is ever so slightly disappointed.

      Having irritated the majority with phasing out ICE cars, green taxes and stove fuel, the Tories have dumped on roller’s.

      • beobrigitte says:

        30g rolling tobacco up by 67p
        *facepalm*
        It seems extortion to me (what was last years tobacco rise?) but I do get my tobacco when friends and family visits. I have not bought tobacco in the UK for a long time…

        Arnott’s awful pissed off about this; wants her budget up from £200 to £300 million.

        When was this budget meeting? Today? In London, by any change and all in a room together?

        • Rose says:

          Rolling tobacco up by 67p, but then again, diamonds are an artificially inflated price too, and if you appreciate diamonds you will pay it if you can.
          With every week that passes we seem to be finding something new and fascinating about tobacco, so I am somewhat philosophical about paying the tax, it’s been extortionate since James 1st. deliberately raised it to price the ordinary people out of the market and for the same reason..

          “JAMES, by the Grace of God &c. to our right Trustie and right Welbeloved Cousen and Counsellor, Thomas Earle of Dorset our High Treasourer of Englande, Greetinge.

          “We do therefore will and command you our Treasurer of Englande, and herebye also warrant and aucthorise you to geve order to all Customers Comptrollers Searchers Surveyors, and all other Officers of our Portes, that, from and after the sixe and twentith Day of October next comynge, they shall demaunde and take to our use of all Merchauntes, as well Englishe as Strangers, and of all others whoe shall bringe in anye Tabacco into this Realme, within any Porte Haven or Creek belonging to any theire severall Charges,

          the Somme of Six Shillinges and eighte Pence uppon everye Pound Waight thereof, over and above the Custome of Twoo Pence uppon the Pounde Waighte usuallye paide heretofore;”

          Wytnes our self at Westminster the seaventeenth Day of October. [1604].

          The Chancellor is only following a very old tradition.

        • beobrigitte says:

          Rolling tobacco up by 67p, but then again, diamonds are an artificially inflated price too, and if you appreciate diamonds you will pay it if you can.
          Diamond prices will decrease, tobacco prices will continue to increase.
          The rich won’t buy diamonds right now, the poor can’t afford them at any time, anyway.

  6. slugbop007 says:

    Earlier this afternoon I saw a news headline that said the WHO has now declared CoronaVirus a Pandemic.

    slugbop007

    • beobrigitte says:

      Yep. I guess Tedros did not like it that countries/states/districts etc. etc. started doing their own thing.
      That reminds me, I must search London guys email addresses (met them twice/year at a 2 day piss- erm- meeting) to check a few things.

  7. beobrigitte says:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/mar/11/coronavirus-update-live-news-uk-health-minister-italy-lockdown-australia-us-china-stock-markets-outbreak-latest-updates

    10 minutes ago:
    Returning to the UK, the Labour MP Maria Eagle has asked the health secretary about the decision to allow Atletico Madrid fans to come to the UK for their team’s Champions League last 16 second leg match:

    Schools and colleges are closed in Madrid and public gatherings of over 1,000 people banned because there’s a cluster of 782 coronavirus cases and there have been 35 deaths.

    Is it really sensible for fans who couldn’t watch their team at home to be able to travel to Liverpool and watch their team play with 51,000 locals? Is that really sensible?

    Hancock replied:

    We are aiming at the things that have the biggest impact and there are some things that feel right but don’t have an impact at all, and that’s why it’s so important to follow the science and what Public Health England say.
    (Bold my emphasis)
    Oh boy…….If the science is the lady Boris spoke to tonight we know we’re in trouble.

    4 minutes ago:
    The US president, Donald Trump, has hinted that he may advise Americans not to travel to Europe and will discuss declaring a national emergency when he gives a televised address later on Wednesday. He is due to speak at 8pm EDT (midnight GMT).

  8. Fumo ergo sum says:

    My apologies for spoiling this forum once again, but I just wanted to share some thoughts that came up yesterday evening in the middle of the ongoing Corona hysteria.

    I actually hardly watch any television at all, but I incidentally watched a reportage yesterday evening in passing through my parents’ living room on the current situation in Italy as the whole country has gone into lockdown. Some videos and images were shown displaying the historical town centres of Milan, Venice and Rome in broad daylight – all of them nearly deserted. Even the main tourist attractions such as the Colosseum or the Vatican’s Saint Peter’s Square (technically outside Italy, of course… ) all looked rather abandoned, at least as far as I could see. Then there was also a couple of interviews with some local Italian residents. A young lady from Milan exclaimed, with vehement gesticulations as only Italians can do, that she hoped that this ‘surrealistic situation’ may be over soon, so that life could just continue its normal course.

    And this made me think of some things. Whereas it might be world news nowadays that the Doge’s Palace in Venice or the Piazza Navona in Rome are currently the places to be for those who want to enjoy an exceptional time in tranquility and quietness, I personally wasn’t shocked at all to watch those otherwise touristic spots having closed terraces and almost no-one strolling around. Because I had already got used to the scenery. For about a decade, all cities and towns in (Western) Europe actually do look like ghost towns to me, and this of course due to the different smoking bans that had been imposed on those cities and towns by their respective national governments. Visiting a city like Lille, Utrecht or Antwerp nowadays feels like visiting Aleppo after having been besieged by ISIS and Al Qaeda. Yes, I can still see the Gothic cathedrals, the Renaissance palaces and the historical guild houses that stand as silent witnesses of grandiose times in a long and distant past. But move a bit closer to that house on the marketplace – the one with the stepped gable roof and the nicely decorated stained glass windows. What looked like a renovated tavern from afar is not what it seems. No, it is just one of the military outposts in an occupied city. Even though you won’t encounter many soldiers in there as they are just outside the city gates, fighting ferocious and ruthless enemies such as climate change deniers, transphobes and people that sneeze without a handkerchief. See that ugly red sticker on the window or on the front door with the cigarette crossed out? It is actually an ‘invisible’ soldier, representing his physical alter ego who is still outside battling windmills. And did you see that outside terrace just in front? Yes, the one that still has the ashtrays on the tables? But did you also notice the dense piles of barbed wire, mines and bayonets standing between the terrace and the front door of the adjacent building, so that ‘not a single whiff of smoke’ could make its way inside? And oh, look over there! A smoker’s pole! Right under the open sky! I assume that the group of smokers around it must definitely enjoy their cigarette, even in the pouring rain… Well, eh, or perhaps it is simply a complete scandalous embarrassment that in an era that prides itself to be the epitome of tolerance and open-mindedness, they can’t have a warm, inside place of their own to enjoy that cigarette.

    In short, what may eventually still look like a convivial and welcoming scenery from a distance is actually a cold, soulless and unwelcoming world upon closer inspection. And if a place becomes cold, soulless and unwelcoming, one would rather like not to be there at all. And as a result, one becomes completely uninterested whether that place is crowded or empty. Or whether it would even exist at all. And so when I pass (if at all) through the cold, soulless and unwelcoming cities of Europe, I just perceive empty ghost towns. Obviously, many non-smoking and particularly antismoking people may still perceive shopping streets with people walking by, couples entering and exiting stores, friends visiting cafes and groups going to an art exhibition in the museum. As a matter of sensory input, I do of course see the same things. But I perceive – which is an act of reason and the imagination – something completely different. I perceive a world existing out of nothingness. As if all those cafes, stores, railway stations and other ‘public spaces’ are just soap bubbles that could burst any moment. As if the streets and marketplaces are just empty and abandoned.

    For the Italians, it is now nonsmokers that may finally have a little ‘taste’ as well how it is to live in an abandoned town or city – and no, I do not put these words with any sense of Schadenfreude. How it feels to be permanently restricted in where and when you can go. How one ‘indoor place’ after the other gets ‘locked down’. How eery other people’s overreacting behaviour suddenly becomes. How one all the sudden, as if struck by lightning, starts living like a recluse in one’s own country. And so on. The feelings of alienation that come along with this perceived state of affairs are of course all too familiar to smokers – at least to me. But obviously, the way something is perceived does not necessarily match the way something ought to be – on the contrary even. Nor do I ever get used to the situation as I perceive it for about ten years with how it is. Because that would imply that there is a match or a correspondence between how something ‘is’ with how it ‘ought to be’, but this correspondence won’t ever materialize. For me, the whole situation still remains as surrealistic as it was ten years ago. Perhaps it is even more surrealistic now as it was then, since I came to reflect on the smoking ban and other forms of social engineering rather recently.

    Now, I think that the lady in the reportage used a very apt adjective by choosing the word ‘surrealistic’ to describe the current lockdown of Italy. Surrealism – either as an art form or as a way of thinking – often emerges out of a conflict between how things are and how things ought to be. What ought to be, according to this lady (and she is of course right), is thriving city centres where one could drive, ride, walk, drink, stroll, flirt and smoke freely as one sees fit. What currently ‘is’, but ought not to be, is cities under surveillance and control – yes, it was reported that Italian police forces could stop you upon leaving your town or village in order to examine your reasons for going out to another town – with only very limited possibilities to move from one place to another. What struck me, then, was that this lady was already crying for moral and intellectual sanity after a mere 2 days (!!) of lockdown. I am already crying for it, in vain, for about 10 years. And Frank even a couple of years longer. So, of course I hope for her and for millions of her fellow compatriots that the lockdown in Italy may be lifted soon. On the other hand, I hope even more that the current lockdown of Italy – perhaps very soon to be introduced in countries like Germany, France or Belgium as well – may reveal itself to be the excellent occasion to reflect on the tremendous (non-instrumental) value of freedom. A value that cannot, and may not, ever be sacrificed on the altar of the false god of ‘public health’. And that therefore, at least some people (in Italy or elsewhere in Europe or even in the whole world) may start putting into doubt the legitimacy of the smoking ban and other forms of top-down imposed restrictions and prohibitions.

    • EG says:

      You wrote down what I always wanted to say and maybe scream it all out loud but I couldn’t collect my thoughts in order and on text. Thank you.

  9. slugbop007 says:

    The NBA (National Basketball Association) and other professional and amateur sports leagues in the USA are considering banning people from attending their games. Formula One in Australia might follow suit. Those bloody comets!

    slugbop007

  10. beobrigitte says:

    What is hysteria? What is ignorance? What is realism? What is idealism?

    Hysteria: screeching, arm flailing people doing stupid things. There are plenty of them about.

    The USA is BANNING (note the word BANNING) travel to Europe (who on earth would want to go on holiday there right now, anyway?) with the exception of the UK.
    I’m glad it isn’t holiday season!!! Most tourists want to see London.

    Ignorance:
    Never mind that the USA flew in 14 infected individuals behind a plastic sheet and duct tape, Trump continues to blame everybody else, but no himself.
    https ://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/mar/12/coronavirus-live-updates-who-declares-pandemic-as-italy-introduces-stricter-measures
    For those who want to read Donald Trump’s speech in full, you can find it here. He did not pull any punches on who he blamed for the outbreak of the virus in the US:

    And taking early intense action, we have seen dramatically fewer cases of the virus in the United States than are now present in Europe. The European Union failed to take the same precautions and restrict travel from China and other hotspots. As a result, a large number of new clusters in the United States were seeded by travellers from Europe.

    As we know, the travel ban from Europe only includes countries in the Schengen Area that have officially abolished all passport and all other types of border controls. The countries in the Schengen Area are: Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, and Switzerland.
    This time of the year people travel mostly for business.

    Realism: You see the situation for what it is even if you don’t like what you see. You have enough sense to get on with it.

    Idealism: However strong a counter-argument is, it is ignored with “Nononononono!!!! I am right”. At this point any reasoning fails. This applies mostly to the anti-smokers and politics.
    I gave up last night (I monitored the UK new cases closely over the last 4 days – to look at the progression curve – the UK has entered the exponential part on 3.March) to try and give as close as I can a realistic picture. Science seems wasted here, idealism wins.

    Fumo ergo sum,
    And that therefore, at least some people (in Italy or elsewhere in Europe or even in the whole world) may start putting into doubt the legitimacy of the smoking ban and other forms of top-down imposed restrictions and prohibitions.
    I sure hope so!!
    I am surprised that the UK smokers take this year’s tobacco tax – in effect from 6 pm last night, not even waiting until 1. April – laying down. Surely, tobacco prices are not going to decrease once this is over unless there is a total collapse.

  11. Rose says:

    “thriving city centres where one could drive, ride, walk, drink, stroll, flirt and smoke freely as one sees fit.”

    I have been watching a lot of news lately and it struck me how many of our towns have had the roads that ran through them erased and replaced with paving. To go shopping you have to walk for miles but can only go home with what you can physically carry and yet they complain that they haven’t many customers especially now.
    And then they have the cheek to blame the internet.

  12. Igrowmyown says:

    From Wikipedia
    “Hoyle promoted the hypothesis that the first life on Earth began in space, spreading through the universe via panspermia,and that evolution on Earth is influenced by a steady influx of viruses arriving via comets. His belief that comets had a significant percentage of organic compounds was well ahead of his time,”

    ” Wickramasinghe wrote in 2003. “In the highly polarized polemic between Darwinism and creationism our position is unique. Although we do not align ourselves with either side,both sides treat us as opponents. Thus we are outsiders with an unusual perspective – and our suggestion for a way out of the crisis has not yet been considered.”

  13. Igrowmyown says:

    Fred Hoyle
    “The notion that not only the biopolymer but the operating program of a living cell could be arrived at by chance in a primordial organic soup here on Earth is evidently nonsense of a high order.”

  14. Hi Frank et al,

    I have been a regular reader for the past five years, but gave up the commenting thing after my problems, the result of a bizarre sequence of events. I might explain it one day (in a book, promoted on a tour of daytime telly shows).

    Anyway, I cannot allow this latest piece of Guardian pseudoscience to pass without comment. It is important to understand the context of this panspermia claim as well as the lack of scientific rigour involved. You could argue (correctly!) that similar pseudoscience and lack of attention to evidence is rife in antismoker ‘science,’ manmade climate change and many other dogmas. Notice how little science is in that Guardian piece.

    The panspermia notions of Chandra Wickramasinghe and Sir Fred Hoyle are based on the non-scientific *assumption* that there is no Creator and no beginning to life, so they reject creationism, but they also reject abiogenesis (as life in the universe has always apparently existed!).

    They support(ed) the Steady State Theory as opposed to the Big Bang Theory (even though Hoyle supposedly first coined the term ‘Big Bang’ whether as a pejorative term or not).

    Mr Wickramasinghe contributed to a book called “Bouddhisme et science.” I can only see that it has been published in French, but the bumph on bookseller websites states that, “The Buddhist consideration of psychology and cosmology seems to agree with modern scientific theories. It is a pacifist, holistic, ecological vision of the world, the advantages of which are exposed throughout the book.”

    Not sure there’s much scientific evidence for reincarnation on Earth. I’m pretty sure that the evidence is tending towards zero. And the widely-accepted Theory of Evolution* – which has supposedly produced highly evolved organisms from the dust of the ground – is the antithesis of pacifism, based, as it is, on fighting tooth and claw in the “Struggle for Life.” Biblical history isn’t very pacifistic either, despite the commandment to “Love your neighbour as yourself.”

    *Hoyle and Wickramasinghe calculated that the chance of obtaining the required set of enzymes for even the simplest living cell was one in 10 to the power 40,000. Since the number of atoms in the known universe is infinitesimally tiny by comparison (10 to the 80), even the whole universe being a ‘primordial soup’ would still be considered statistically impossible for abiogenesis to have occurred.

    The point is that *every* scientific opinion comes loaded with philosophical and religious (or anti-religious) sentiment. Or maybe simply financial considerations. I expect that Mr W. adheres to high ethical standards, but other people who have written so much about “cosmic ancestry” might be influenced by money from book sales. And if the Guardian is reporting viruses-from-space as possible fact then it can more easily be dismissed as fable. I’m sure that’s a logical fallacy, as even a broken clock is correct twice a day.

    I’ll be in touch in another five years’ time if I’m still around and Frank’s still “Banging on about the Smoking Ban.” Of course, Boris might have repealed the Ban – and a space ship ambulance from the constellation of Orion might have arrived to clear up all these space viruses. I think we can safely discount both.

    • beobrigitte says:

      You will be straight back after this answer, calling me the devil. That’s what you Brexiteers do well – feed hate!
      Your “pseudoscience”: (you didn’t explain your qualifications; I guess science has little to do with it)
      https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/mar/12/coronavirus-live-updates-who-declares-pandemic-as-italy-introduces-stricter-measures
      Many families “to lose loved ones” announces UK prime minister
      Boris Johnson said the coronavirus outbreak was “the worst public health crisis for a generation” and the number of cases could be “much higher” than had been confirmed.

      They WILL be. Boris fucked up grand style once the capacity of the few PHE labs was reached. You have swabs but not many thermal cyclers.

      Johnson said he had to level with the British public that “many more families are going to lose loved ones before their time”.

      We are now getting onto the next phase in that plan because this is now not just an attempt to contain the disease as far as possible but to delay the spread and thereby minimise the suffering.
      Guess what, Boris? You fucked up grand style! Your numbers of infections are as plausible as Iran or the USA.
      We Germans were told days ago that we’re in for a rough ride and that we will have to face many deaths.

      He said even if the peak of the disease is delayed by a “few weeks” the NHS will be in a stronger position to handle it because of the improving weather, more beds will be available and there will be greater time for medical research.
      I know EXACTLY at what point you fucked up. Don’t make idiotic excuses. You should have come clean 8 days ago. London is out of control.

      Have a nice time travelling to the States. Or a cruise. Whatever.

      • Roobeedoo2 says:

        Say what about Brexiteers, BB?

        • beobrigitte says:

          what I said above.

        • Roobeedoo2 says:

          Stewie doesn’t mention Brexit in his comment, nor indicate how he voted in the EU referendum. I don’t understand why you would include that in your comment. Unless you’re feel an animosity toward Brexiteers. Do you?

        • beobrigitte says:

          As you might remember I didnt. (Feel free to read my comments going back years)
          Now I am not so sure.
          Reason: Britain will be pulled over the table; smoking ban will persist and tobacco prices will be adjusted to that of Australia and New Zealand.

          Now feel free to tell me to fuck off to my own country if I don’t like it (btw, 40 gr. rolling tobacco costs 4.65 Euros there) – the anti-smoker at this point in time are keeping a low profile – Ermer would risk a fist if he would push for anything anti-smoking right now.
          Britain made the new tobacco prices valid as from yesterday evening 6 pm. Not even waiting until the usual 1. April.

        • Roobeedoo2 says:

          Luvvie, I would never tell you fuck off back to your own country; why would you think I would?

        • beobrigitte says:

          (In Scouse) Chichch, you wouldn’t be the first one.

        • Roobeedoo2 says:

          But I’ve not done that and nor has anybody else said that to you on here, BB. Unless by talking to you, I’m feeding your hate. Do you feel hateful?

        • beobrigitte says:

          The first time I heard that was from an American who comments here.

          But, no. I don’t hate anybody. I don’t even resent anybody. I speak my mind – we ;ive in a democracy, after all, aren’t we? I am very close to resign to that I have backed completely the wrong ideology. Sorry.

          My English friends are most certainly as great as they always were.

        • Thank you, Roobeedoo. I must say that after five years of absence, I didn’t expect such vitriol, especially coming from someone whose comments I have appreciated over the years. Getting to know this German lady from Merseyside somewhat, I initially assumed that she was being ironic and then say something like, “Haha, that’s what an antismoker Remainer would have said to you calling out junk science.” Alas, no!

          You’re right, Roobee, what does ‘Brexit’ have to do with it? Nobody mentioned it, not even the Guardian – what a wasted opportunity for them! Passing up the chance to blame viruses alleged to come from millions of miles away on Brexit.

          My reply was a public service (or so I thought) to warn/remind about the psychological and religious baggage which everyone carries. The fact is that according to the Guardian,

          “He [Mr Wickramasinghe] believes that huge amounts of micro-organisms land on Earth every day, including a tonne of bacteria. Given this, the chances would be that many surprise outbreaks of disease came from space.”

          Perhaps Brigitte could explain why she says nothing about such a nonsensical piece of junk ‘science’ yet seems to spend her life on investigating antismoking junk science reported in the Guardian and other junk mainstream media.

          Don’t you see that the more people who espouse such outrageous ‘science’ as fact will be much more likely to lead millions to accept just about anything else as fact, no matter how absurd or how flimsy the evidence? And what serious newspaper could report on this without adding even a hint of sarcasm or mentioning this man’s unconventional ideas, even within mainstream, corrupted (mutated?) academia?

          The Guardian does add as a final paragraph,

          “Many scientists are working to confirm the theory that Sars simply mutated from another virus here on Earth. However, a supposition that it might have come from animals has been undermined by a failure to make it take hold in pigs and chickens. Tests are now taking place involving other species.”

          Well, that’s a relief. I’m glad the MSM rag (which I used to buy in the 80s while I was still a total ignoramus) told us this – real scientists are conducting research based on observable phenomena and trying to obtain empirical evidence through the work of “many scientists.”

          If that’s a veiled rejection of Viruses from Outer Space, it’s a very weak one.

          ***For the millions who only read the headlines and believe this codswallop then how much more likely will they believe in the latest ‘research’ into something like ‘third-hand smoke’?***

          Well, here’s what Leg-iron wrote a whole decade ago called “Nine hundredth hand smoke,” which was written in response to the new deadly threat of ‘third-hand smoke’,
          https://underdogsbiteupwards.wordpress.com/2010/02/09/nine-hundredth-hand-smoke/

          Sure enough, and on-script, ‘ScienceDaily’ (sic) reported four years later, “Third-hand smoke just as deadly as first-hand smoke, study finds”. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/01/140130190453.htm

          For an extra laugh, the ‘study’ came out of California.

          You’ll notice that the incubation period for junk science is much longer than for traditional diseases. To get people to believe in junk, they need to be programmed (or be very gullible in the first place), so the signs are usually evident there much sooner in order to infect the mind sufficiently for true believers to sign up by the million.

          I don’t recall anyone changing so much on the internet as you, Brigitte, especially with someone, who very much like you, resents the pseudoscience that pervades Tobacco Control.

          “But, no. I don’t hate anybody. I don’t even resent anybody.”

          People who use such intemperate language are, in my experience, generally hateful – or maybe just upset at some *perceived* offence – and that brings out the hatred and/or resentment. I would say that nobody writes as you have, Brigitte, without the presence of resentment. It’s a shame, as I’ve learned from you over the years.

          “My English friends are most certainly as great as they always were.”

          I can believe it, but I lived in Merseyside in 1988, and I met some of the kindest people I’ve ever met just in that brief period. My next door neighbours, presumably very soon after learning that I was a bachelor and probably didn’t eat properly (or maybe because I just looked like the pasty-faced Glaswegian that I was) brought me in a large roast dinner with all the trimmings once a week. Actually, the young grandchildren knocked on my door with the main course, followed 45 minutes later, or whatever, with a pudding.

          As for Germans, do I hate you/them? I spent years learning German, so of course I do. I just wanted to be as proficient in insulting them as you have been to me. It wouldn’t have been good if I’d tried to tell them I hated them for the War, but it came out like, “What is the soup of the day?” Of course I don’t hate Germans. My oldest schoolfriend (since age 5 or younger) married a German bloke in the 1980s. I went to the wedding over there and stayed with the groom’s parents for a few days. Their town had been flattened towards the end of the War during the Battle of the Reichswald where about 300? RAF bombers pounded the town during the Allied push into N.W. Germany. This didn’t stop them from taking me to visit the Commonwealth war cemetery, where thousands of Germany’s enemies were buried – and it would still have been fresh in their minds, having happened when they were in their 20s. I have sporadic online ‘chats’ with my schoolfriend and I understand that the in-laws are still alive.

          I don’t know if you remember the Liverpudlian comedian Stan Boardman, but he was famous for his jokes about the Germans, because, as he admitted later, his exaggerated pronunciation of “German” in his Scouse accent made people laugh. So, his jokes included one about during the War, the Germans bombed their chippy. He was only three at the time, but as he told the Liverpool Echo in 2006, “All I can remember is my dad and my grandad in those growing up years saying how the ‘Germans bombed our chippie’ – it was something they said because it happened in their lifetime.”

          At the end of that article, the interviewer asks,

          “So has he forgiven the Germans for bombing the chippie?

          “Of course I have. It was war.

          “But don’t tell that to any Germans – that will be the end of my act.””

          Yes, I did vote for Brexit (as you brought it up), because I didn’t want to end up living in the sort of society that all tyrants have desired as they tried to exert total control on the Continent (what else would you expect people who demand more and more control to end up like?). We saw it year-on-year coming from Brussels (including anti-tobacco legislation, despite your protestations about not getting your cheap(er) tobacco). I voted ‘Brexit’ out of love, not hate; love for my own country and respect for those who died for it and hoping other countries would also leave. I didn’t want tyranny for the UK or for Germany or for the other 26 countries. I loved them all and hoped that this club of fanatics would collapse like a house of Kleenex tissues.

          You’re all upset about paying more for your fags. Stan Boarman’s six-year-old brother, Tommy, was killed by the Luftwaffe, not to mention the friends they all lost, yet he can forgive; he can understand. Yet Remainers can’t seem to forgive the majority of the people they live amongst and then they have the nerve to talk endlessly about ‘tolerance’ and ‘respect’ – as in talk about stupid old people like me who just hate young people and want them to fail. Are they serious? God willing, they will be paying my pension when it’s time. I want them to be super-successful. I might get a decent state pension then!

          Perhaps the hatred in Britain really hit industrial levels after the 2016 Referendum, but a hatred and distrust far more deeply ingrained even than the legacy of WWII and a hatred, not for any evil, foreign dictator, but within our own society and between friends and family.

          Who said I was a fan of Boris Johnson anyway? Not me. I think they’re all out to ruin Britain by whatever means seems best at the time. Brexit might be to destroy us from the inside then have the people begging to get into the super new, improved tyrannical EU and we’ll be mandated to sign up for their army, their currency and maybe, by that time, their total smoking ban. Did you not consider that?

          In the meantime and without the UK, they can ‘reform’ the EU without us getting in their way all the time. No, I think you can imagine tobacco being illegal within twenty years. It’s the only way they can achieve their smoke-free society. Legalising cannabis will likely happen (because rather than improving certain mental faculties, it makes people lazy and stupid, so they”ll be less of a threat to the powers elite). They’ll get away with this odd contradiction by using the old chestnut, “Studies have shown…”.

          And you are very active on the blog of a fellow (to me) rampant anti-Brussels blogger, yet you attack me when I didn’t even mention the EU or endorse Johnson or his policies. You don’t even know me, but I am to blame for all these migrants being treated like they are and for the spread of coronavirus to boot. And here’s me thinking I’m on the side of the angels, when I’m doing all these terrible things and didn’t even realise it. For the record, I have only voted Tory once in my nearly 40 years as a registered voter, and I only did that (very grudgingly) because he was a friend from church and a nice fella who I thought might do some good for the area in a town hall with its typical PC-crazed and financially corrupt councillors. I was wrong, because his latest job (he lost his seat in the following election) is very PC (like, about as PC as you can get). Follow the money…

          Maybe Brexiteers-turned-Remainers are like ex-smokers, so have lost their sense of proportion. Or perhaps ex-smokers can be more obsessive than non-smokers because they resent that some people still smoke, but not them. Maybe you feel cheated that you voted ‘Leave’ and now your fags might cost a bit more, so you’re turning on your former Brexiteers in a vulgar display of entitlement and intolerance.

          Thanks again, Roobeedoo. I’m glad that the actual point of my comment wasn’t totally lost – that everyone has some agenda or other – and agendas can change, as with Brigitte and my former church friend. I’ve changed too. I was detoxed as an alcoholic 22 years ago and, by God’s grace, haven’t returned to it. Not yet anyway. Experiences like this one draw me a step closer, though. My point being that I don’t hate drinkers or alcoholics or even annoying drunks at parties, like the one who insisted that I was in a same-sex relationship (I had taken in friends’ teenage son who was about to be made homeless and as I had three spare bedrooms, I thought it selfish not to offer), but he refused to take “No” for an answer, so we went outside to sort it out. We almost came to blows, but not quite and sort of made up. He suggested we have a smoke, as in a peace-pipe, although it was fags. It wasn’t being accused of being a homosexual that offended me as much as being called a liar.

          He kept trying to assure me that he saw nothing wrong with me being ‘gay’ or with that lifestyle generally. The sting came for him years later when his own son came of age and came out the closet. He certainly saw something wrong with it then and did all that he could to make him straight, but in the end he decided that he either had to accept it or lose his son, so he accepted it.

          Was he right or wrong to accept it? Was he right or wrong to oppose it? Was he being a hypocrite when it was all right for me to be one, but not his son? Perhaps. Or he hadn’t actually thought about it before – his response was that outlined in the ‘gay rights blueprint’, “Overhauling Straight America,” when heterosexuals would be conditioned by the media to defend homosexuals “by reflex,” i.e. without thinking about it. His son forced him to think about it like he never had to before. And there’s another example of the media and ‘entertainment’ industry changing people’s minds through sophistry. You could possibly even call it black magic.

          Maybe you, Brigitte, should question why Brexit was right four years ago, but wrong today, mainly? because the price of your cigarettes will increase. I’m not defending anything done by the Tories, but is it going to be worse than WWII? Sorry to keep “mentioning the War” with a German, but I assume that you don’t mind. I say this on the basis that I once watched ‘The Germans’ episode of Fawlty Towers with my friend’s husband while they were over here in Britain and it was about the most I’ve ever laughed. The German found it hilarious too. It’s like there was a kind of synergism happening which made it funnier than it normally is, as we were both in stitches.

          Nobody has the right to lecture me on ‘European cooperation,’ least of all unaccountable bureaucrats. I used to go on holiday around the Continent, but only twice, I think since the EU has been the EU. I loved the different languages and food and money and landscapes and architecture and transport and amusement parks (mostly) and of course, people, except for some in Paris who I thought were rude and dismissive, even when their job was to help people, but I was only there for two nights and people in some other parts of France are delightful.

          Anyway, Brigitte, I hope you have a better day today than you must have had yesterday and I’m not being sarcastic.

  15. slugbop007 says:

    Most people seem unaware that the Earth is just a tiny object surrounded by a seemingly limitless Universe.They think that the Earth is just some static object, hanging in the air, suspended by some invisible string. There was a blackout in Los Angeles not that long ago and during the blackout people were perplexed by what they saw in the sky when it wasn’t blotted out by millions of watts of artificial light.

    My first reservation about Boris Johnson occurred when he went to Tuikey just after the 2016 coup. Ditto for President-Elect Donald Trump when he appointed Michael Flynn to his staff after his shady dealings with the Turkish government, again in 2016. Pfttt!

    slugbop007  

  16. Pingback: Extraterrestrial Ideas | Frank Davis

  17. Pingback: Borisov’s Carbon Monoxide Cloud | Frank Davis

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