Breaking Point

Here’s last night’s Smoking Section, which I spent disagreeing with Stephen Helfer:

I think the difference between Stephen Helfer and me is that he wants to take the fight to the enemy, while I want to build an army.

Because I don’t think that you can take the fight to the enemy if you don’t have an army.

He was talking last night about forming a small disciplined unit of people – perhaps a dozen people – who would act in concert together.

But I don’t think a dozen people can achieve very much more than one person can. I want an army of millions of people. I want an army of millions of angry smokers.

He was also suggesting that small disciplined units of people could make themselves appear to be much more numerous than they actually were. But I want the reality of such large numbers of people that, if anything, there is a tendency to under-estimate their numbers rather over-estimate them. I want a real army, not an imaginary army.

There is not really any disagreement here. We both want the same thing. What we’re disagreeing about is how to set about it. We both want to repair the broken-down car. We simply disagree about whether to open up the hood and examine the spark plugs, or jack up the rear and take off the wheels. It’s a procedural difference. What needs to be done first?

The problem was perhaps best illustrated by the very first comment, by Dirk, under yesterday’s post

Maybe a crazy idea, but what if suddenly 50 smokers turned up in a pub and started smoking? By the time the police arrives they’re gone. And then they do this again and again in other pubs,..

I don’t think that this is a crazy idea. Or at least the only crazy thing about it is that you first need 50 people. It’s like one of those rabbit casserole recipes that begins “First catch your rabbit.” And therein lies the principal hurdle to making rabbit casserole.

It’s all very well imagining what you might be able to do with 50 people in a flash mob, but while there aren’t actually 50 such people, it’s a phantom flash mob, an imaginary army of toy soldiers.

So what I’ve begun to consider is not so much what I might do with an army of 10 people or 1000 people or 1 million people, but instead consider how to raise an army of 10 or 1000 or 1 million people.

There are approximately 1.5 billion smokers in the world (maybe twice that number, for all I know), and they are all of them being bullied and demonised and robbed. When are they going to start fighting back? When are they going to say: Enough!!

I don’t think I’m asking any kind of profound new question here. This is something that has happened throughout history again and again and again. And will no doubt continue to happen. At what point does a placid farmer take his hoe and turn it into a spear, or take his plough and beat it into a battle-axe? When does the breaking point come when the gentle farmer says goodbye to his wife and children, and marches off to war?

Read this:

THE smoking ban should be extended to include all outdoor public areas, according to health experts.

Exclusion zones should stop smokers lighting up in parks, pub and restaurant gardens, at public events and shopping areas.

All university campuses and schools, beaches and sports and leisure facilities should also fall under the crackdown.

Doing so could encourage one in three smokers to switch to e-cigarettes, experts at the Royal Society for Public Health predicted.

They are calling on the next Government to put the ban and other health measures at the forefront of their manifesto ahead of General Election.

So, having cracked down on UK smokers for the past 10 years, the bastards want to crack down on them twice as hard.

It even brought one ex-smoker somewhere near breaking point.

It’s time we stopped indulging these nannying fussbuckets. Time we told them to butt out of our lives. Time to point out that whether we smoke, drink, eat cake or go to a burger bar is absolutely none of their bloody business. Time to close down public health.

Absolutely. Public health must be closed down. And Tobacco Control must be destroyed.

 

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About Frank Davis

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60 Responses to Breaking Point

  1. cendoubleu says:

    Where do I sign Frank?

  2. Rose says:

    “All university campuses and schools, beaches and sports and leisure facilities should also fall under the crackdown.
    Doing so could encourage one in three smokers to switch to e-cigarettes, experts at the Royal Society for Public Health predicted.”

    Then they would be wrong, medicalising e-cigarettes would kill the industry.

    Government has seen what the British public can do when pushed too far, so I think the monstrous invasion of personal autonomy demanded by The Royal Society for Public Health will be dropped like a hot brick.

  3. Rose says:

    If you call yourself an army you immediately make other people pick sides.
    I would rather be part of a barely noticed but persistant drip of water that eventually rots the foundations.

    • garyk30 says:

      People have already picked sides about most everything.
      There are those that feel strongly one way, those that feel strongly the other way, and the majority of the people that do not care one way or the other.

      In the last US presidential election:
      About 62 million adults voted for Trump
      About 66 million adults voted for Clinton

      About 110 million adults did not vote at all

      • waltc says:

        Tngent worth noting: between the two other candidates, Libertarian and alt left, there were 5 million vites cast, So Hillary’s claim that she won the popular vote by 3 million turns out to be that she actually lost the (total) popular vote by two million.

  4. garyk30 says:

    Frank, you and Stephen are both correct.
    You gentlemen are fighting two different types of battles.

    You are fighting a national ban and would need a national sized army.

    Stephen is fighting local bans and needs smaller local groups of fighters.

  5. nisakiman says:

    Your views and Stephen Helfer’s are not, to my mind, mutually exclusive. I think he’s right insofar as for a movement to coalesce, it needs a core group of people who are fairly high profile activists (for want of a better word). But that movement also needs foot-soldiers, numbers. Your analogy of an army is germane, insofar as an army needs its infantry equally as much as it needs its generals. Neither can hope to win a war without the other.

  6. irocyr says:

    The problem with angry smokers willing to fight is that they are far too diluted around the globe to be effective in any meaningful way. We need momentum and to gain momentum is for our physical efforts to be concentrated on one battle at a time and achieve one small victory at a time. We also need money. Audrey works hard both legally and in the field in New York. Her appeals for funding to carry on with at least her legal battles have fallen into mostly deaf ears and empty pockets. The antis did not win the world overnight and with empty pockets. They fought one town at a time and with millions from the government and Big Pharma. Every little bit we do on line and in real life counts and by all means let’s continue doing it but we need to massively concentrate on one particular battle at a time, fund it, win it and move on to the next. This is how momentum is built and encourages other fighters to do the same in their respective towns/countries. Stephen Helfer gained momentum when he helped a Mass town (can’t remember which one now, Cambridge I think) defeat their plans to totally ban the sale of tobacco in that particular town but he did get help and publicity from one commercial entity (again can’t remember the name now) which is what is needed for some of the funding. When our British fighters won in Stanford it also brought momentum. We need a whole more momentums such as the far and in-between fights I just mentioned.
    So whether we are a million, a thousand or a dozen it doesn’t really matter. What matters is real action and fund raising to win small battles in targeted areas, one at a time. This way our limited funds and efforts will not be diluted and they just might have a snowball effect eventually with celebrities and rich entities joining in, who knows.

    As for getting to know each other. We had built a dynamic group when FORCES was still very active before Gian Turci passed away. We had online meetings, we had two World conferences under the umbrella group TICAP where delegates from all over the world (including myself on the first) attended, we had a spectacular FORCES website which parts of it are no longer fully functional, like the multimedia section. A handful of us worked very closely and built strong ties when building the tctactics.org wiki which thankfully still operates but is unfortunately not up-to-date. Sadly we lost many good fighters. Some got discouraged as battles were not being won, some passed away so now we are even more diluted. But the online tools we need are all there, why reinvent the wheel, we just need somebody influential and available enough to motivate the troops to update them and keep them current. I don’t have as much time as I did before, but I am in for whatever I can do under organized and dynamic leadership.

    • Frank Davis says:

      angry smokers willing to fight … are far too diluted around the globe to be effective in any meaningful way.

      There are about 1.5 billion smokers around the globe. Maybe more. And I would imagine that a great many of them are already quite angry. And getting angrier. And the angrier they get, the more inclined they will be to fight. There is no fixed number of angry smokers willing to fight. It is going to be a steadily mounting number.

      Tobacco Control is creating our army for us.

      • irocyr says:

        Oh for sure, but mobilizing them is the hardest task and this is why I say we need momentum to encourage more people to actually fight and show them that it can be done. Educating them is not the real problem. We have educated thousands, perhaps even millions, of people over the years with our online activity, but mobilizing them isn’t quite the same kind of battle. I am not being negative, just a realist. Hey but I am in for whatever suggestion albeit, as I said, my more tight schedule as of lately.

        • irocyr says:

          Take Audrey’s actions for instance. When she attempted to get people to join her in NY City Hall to protest Bloomberg’s vaping ban and smoked right there in Bloomberg’s face, you know how many people showed up to help her ? One : Stephen Helfer from Mass,, and this despite a very active NYCCLASH right in NY. Sad really.

        • Frank Davis says:

          I remember that occasion. It was a noble gesture. But I wondered what the point of it was. It could have just ended up with her being fined. And to have gained what, precisely? Maybe lots of other people in NYCCLASH felt the same.

    • nisakiman says:

      I think, Iro, that the problem lies predominantly in the lack of funding.

      Maintaining sites like Forces and TCT is pretty much a full time job. Look at how many people there are in Tobacco Control who are paid handsomely to dedicate seven days a week to what they do. Bloody thousands of them. And they have billions of dollars supplied by government and the pharmaceutical industries to pour into their propaganda machine.

      The only funded organisation we have in UK (and I suspect that the funding is minimal) is Forest, and Forest seem to be interested only in fighting a rearguard action rather than taking the fight to the enemy. Simon is a stalwart of the principles of liberty, but he is reactive rather than proactive. We need a much more aggressive approach.

      There are a lot of dedicated people in our midst who donate a lot of their time and resources to trying to stem the propaganda tide, but without the money to employ people full time to coordinate what we’re trying to do, it will always be hard to motivate people. Those of us who are retired have more time, but we don’t have the money. Those of us who are working by necessity must prioritise paying bills and taking care of family. Which doesn’t leave a lot of time for involvement with groups trying to push back against TobCon.

      And finally, it’s always going to be difficult to motivate people to resist what seems to be an overwhelming force, with the full might of the establishment behind it. Most people understandably feel it’s akin to Canute trying to hold back the tide, and see it as a lost cause.

      We face an uphill struggle on all fronts, but if we don’t bring more disaffected smokers into the fold via the communication channels we have available to us, I don’t see that we’ll be able to make any progress.

    • RdM says:

      As for getting to know each other. We had built a dynamic group when FORCES was still very active before Gian Turci passed away. We had online meetings, we had two World conferences under the umbrella group TICAP where delegates from all over the world (including myself on the first) attended, we had a spectacular FORCES website which parts of it are no longer fully functional, like the multimedia section. A handful of us worked very closely and built strong ties when building the tctactics.org wiki which thankfully still operates but is unfortunately not up-to-date. Sadly we lost many good fighters. Some got discouraged as battles were not being won, some passed away so now we are even more diluted. But the online tools we need are all there, why reinvent the wheel, we just need somebody influential and available enough to motivate the troops to update them and keep them current. I don’t have as much time as I did before, but I am in for whatever I can do under organized and dynamic leadership.

      It’s indeed sad how the FORCES website has deteriorated for lack of maintenance.
      I used to prefer the archive over the ‘new’ forum version, but even that has died.
      archive. org has lots of that, but all of the evidential links to data-yard are dead.

      Are there original files or copies that new online storage links can be recreated from?

      I know it must seem a huge amount of work…
      I feel overwhelmed just looking at local news, with or without comment facilities…

  7. First of all thank you, for being our guest. Secondly, when I talked about forming a cadre that is my idea not my co-host’s, who, I believe, sees things more as you do. I may be stubborn and repetitious, but, in my opinion, as I posted on our Facebook page: “A small well-organized and disciplined army with strong leadership can defeat a vastly larger army lacking in those attributes. ‘I am not afraid of an army of lions led by a sheep; I am afraid of an army of sheep led by a lion.’ Alexander the Great.”

  8. I haven’t watched Frank’s interview yet – but it occured to me, that people my age – older people – the survivors of a wonderful time when smoking was normal and the fragrance of smoke was not a death penalty to bystanders, are the most offended by the abuse we have endured. Younger people are mentally damaged by the passing of time in which the drip drip drip of Tobacco Control ideology has disempowered them. I am seventy two. I’m fit and healthy after fifty years of smoking. My brain has not been damaged by Tobacco Control ideology. I’m “pure”. How much longer will I live? Ten? Twenty years? The generation that is “pure”, are going to die out. There are no “pures” following us. I absolutely despair. I’m now going to listen to Frank’s interview.
    PS I’m a smoker “pure” that vapes.

    • Emily Wieja says:

      I was despairing of this same exact thing recently. I am almost 39 and feel that I am part of a very last generation that did experience pretty much unlimited (though varying and quickly declining) freedom in smoking during our formative years – in my case until I was in my mid-twenties. However most people my age seem to have forgotten this freedom or at least are very apathetic about it, and those younger than me didn’t experience it at all. But I think there is always hope that a new generation will rebel and “rediscover” tobacco, as Frank pointed out to me.

      • irocyr says:

        The younger generations might start opening their eyes (and mind) when they see vapers are under attack the same way smokers were. At least I hope they do !

  9. Rose says:

    “Today sees the publication of the 2017 edition of the Nanny State Index. Produced by the Institute of Economic Affairs with the help of free market think tanks across Europe, the index measures how much governments interfere in the social lives of their citizens. Last year the UK was the EU’s third worst nanny state. This year we have risen to the dizzy heights of second, lagging behind only the ultra-paternalists of Finland.”
    http://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/802561/nanny-state-index-2017-Institute-of-Economic-Affairs-social-freedoms-Christopher-Snowdon

    Brexit was supposed to be about taking back control – but the UK has one of the most interfering nanny states in Europe
    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/nanny-state-index-state-interference-smoking-drinking-junk-food-a7727571.html

    Previously

    LIQUOR: Gentlemanly Temperance
    Monday, Oct. 07, 1935

    “In the two decades before Prohibition, those lifelong teetotalers John D. Rockefeller Jr. and his father gave the Anti-Saloon League their stanch moral support and $350,323.67. When he declared for Repeal in 1932, Mr. Rockefeller by no means meant that he was quitting his long war on liquor. Having despaired at last of temperance by statute, he set his agents searching the world for other methods of attack.”

    “What the Council proposes to do is spend $100,000 or more per year in attempting to persuade U. S. citizens to drink like gentlemen, to acquire “an attitude of individual responsibility toward the use of liquor.”

    Our messages will travel over the airwaves, reach the eye and ear through the screen and stage, and fashion public thought through advertising and other kinds of publicity
    http: //content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,755063,00.html
    Now subscription only

    We can learn a lot from the experts and as Debbie says, you have to be confident.

  10. Roobeedoo2 says:

    The Labour manifesto for the forthcoming General Election was leaked today…

    Full text:

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/05/leaked-draft-of-labour-2017-manifesto-full-text/

  11. Lecroix says:

    History demonstrates, in my opinion, that when dealing with a far superior adversary, it’s always guerrilla tactics first. Then army.

    • garyk30 says:

      agreed

    • nisakiman says:

      Yes, you’re right.

      Hence the idea of flash mobs. And an army doesn’t necessarily mean a standing army flaunting its military might.

      Think back to Vietnam. I think it was MJM a day or two ago who referred to the B-52s vs bicycles.

      • Lecroix says:

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asymmetric_warfare

        It starts with a pub owner and a client. “You want to allow me to smoke in your establishment. I want to smoke here and buy your beer. Why won’t the State let us?”

        And so they reach an agreement. “We’ll all smoke and drink together, after hours. The bar is “closed”. And the 10 or 15 of us, all in agreement, owner and clients, defy the Law.”
        And that’s how you get your fifty warriors. Nobody notices.

        But there are other pubs. Other owners we can talk to…Where you can get another fifty.

        No newspaper ads, no tv ads. Word of mouth.

        Just like during Prohibition.

  12. C.F. Apollyon says:

    I was just about to stop watching the video, when it occurred to me…
    Q: Why is no one smoking?

    Then…at 02:39 into the video, just as I was about to press pause…a wisp of smoke can be seen wafting across the screen.

    It’s amazing the things that can “bring legitimacy” to a situation and/or situations.

    Sorry, but there is a warble and some other ambient noise/noises in the audio portion of the video that makes it difficult to watch. :/

    • Frank Davis says:

      I’m smoking. Stephen and Emily aren’t, because they’re in a studio in which smoking is banned.

      And yes, there’s some weird feedback.

      • Joe L. says:

        Stephen and Emily aren’t [smoking], because they’re in a studio in which smoking is banned.

        This is very unfortunate, and noticeable. I think a cable-access program like Stephen and Emily’s would be far more impactful and garner more attention if the hosts were actually smoking and enjoying themselves during the show.

        Re-normalization is more than half of our battle. Simply exposing the public to normal people smoking (who aren’t standing in a back alley during a thunderstorm) would do wonders for our cause.

    • Emily Wieja says:

      It’s a mystery what that feedback was. It was kind of distressing at first, but we had to go ahead with it because we were taping live and couldn’t figure out the source of it. In the end I don’t think it’s too big a deal, I have learned to live with getting panic attacks about last minute Skype issues :)

      • Joe L. says:

        Yes, the feedback/noise was strange and unfortunate. It didn’t sound like Skype-related feedback, as it never really changed or was affected by any of your voices. It could have been another signal from a cable that was left connected to whatever sound board/mixer is used in the studio, which is very possible if the studio equipment is shared by multiple programs, which I assume it is. Pretty much impossible to diagnose after the fact and over the internet, though. Just thinking out loud. ;)

        • Emily Wieja says:

          Yes, that was my suspicion too! Unfortunately the technicians at our studio are well-meaning but not always the best at this stuff. They couldn’t figure it out, but we only had about 10 minutes to try and diagnose it before the show started.

          Re. all the comments about not being able to smoke in the studio, it’s something I have considered lately since we started investigating all this Skype recording. I am currently weighing the pros and cons of doing the show live in the studio versus taking it completely to Skype. There are drawbacks to both scenarios.

        • Joe L. says:

          Emily, do you air live for a reason? Do you take phone-ins from viewers (I’m sorry, I haven’t watched many episodes)? Because if not, you could set up a makeshift studio for a relatively reasonable cost in someone’s basement. I assume the Cable Access station would accept the recordings in an appropriate format.

          However, the more I think about it, the interactivity of live call-ins is also a great thing to motivate smokers to share their stories. This can be accomplished pretty easily these days on a live internet stream, but if you feel the need for airing live on TV, you’re pretty much stuck in a studio.

        • Emily Wieja says:

          Re. Joe L.- not really, but Stephen has been doing the show for about 15 years (I think?) and when he started out there weren’t as many options for DIY. Also live community television used to be a good way of reaching the community but not as many people watch local television anymore it seems.

          So I think as time goes on, the justifications for doing a live show in the studio are less and less. The one major positive right now is the relatively “professional” filming quality and getting a digital video file of it afterwards, but I think that’s about it. We do gets calls but unfortunately a lot of the time they are either crank calls or else the same few people who are already involved in our group.

        • Joe L. says:

          Thanks for the reply, Emily.

          I agree that until broadband internet became commonplace, cable access was pretty much the best medium to express your views to a wide audience via video, but now less people watch TV and spend more time on the internet.

          However, while the internet now allows you to reach an even wider audience, it’s so saturated today that it’s even easier to get lost in the fray. Word of mouth is even more important.

          Based on your reply, though, I personally think you should consider moving to a live webcast from a comfortable location where you can smoke freely while filming. The initial investment in some lights, decent hardware (camera, microphones, earpieces, mixer) along with the software required to take/screen calls might be difficult to muster, but I think it would pay off in the long run. Maybe you could consider crowdfunding to lessen the burden?

        • RdM says:

          Yes, the burble/weird noises didn’t sound Skype-related to me, rather more like interference picked up elsewhere.

          It might be worth checking all cables,. cleaning connections with isopropanl/iso propyl alcohol, making sure ground connections are clean and tight, etc.

          I was reminded this afternoon of a videotape I’d made of a rare speaker at the National Film Library here in 1994, when I was an employee;- there were minutes to set up the possibility of recording it, and as it started I realised that there was an incessant buzz, possibly from fluorescent lights, but more likely from a faulty earth connection.

          On one of the cables. But there was no time… it was a choice between capturing the whole event as is, or stopping recording to figure out the connection fault… I let it go.

          Now I still have this videotape, and should transcribe to DVD, try to take out the buzz.

  13. Jay says:

    I wonder if the first job is to actually stir anger in smokers, we oldies are angry, the young ones not at all, they just accept the next restriction that’s enacted. Unless you’re already an angry smoker, you won’t, I think, find your way to this blog, or Dick P’s or Simon Clark’s (and there may be others that I – a furious smoker – haven’t found my way to). Perhaps the first step is to get out of our echo chambers and into the world of vlogging on platforms such as YouTube (the only one that I, as an illiterate techie, know of). People like Paul Joseph Watson and Pat Condell have an enormous reach (no idea what their attitude towards tobacco is, but I can’t imagine either having much truck with erosion of civil liberties and overreach by the State, maybe they’d be willing to speak out? They’re talking to people who haven’t sought out ‘angry smoker’ blogs. Foreign language speakers could suss out influential vloggers who speak in other languages. Spend time on creating a constituency which could subsequently be mobilised to act in concert – that’s what TC did in enacting their restrictions internationally.

    • RdM says:

      I have often on the busy cafe & restaurant street nearby where I live engaged in conversations with young smokers (I in my 60’s, they in their 20’s) and apart from the general impassioned rave, generally well received, have mentioned blogs, cfrankdavis, dick puddlecote, and the possibly slightly easier to remember velvetgloveironfist &etc.

      When I pass a slightly guilty looking smoker on the street who is obviously not sure how I am going to react to their smoking, I say “Long live the smokers (or tobacco lovers).”

      But you’re right: Out of the echo chambers, into the political discourse… write to MPs.
      And comment extensively on news sites, where they allow it. I’m behind, myself…

      But I think it’s worth doing. It needs collating of all the arguments, and presenting them.

      It’s a lot of work.

  14. Barry Homan says:

    I’ll say it again: Global Choke-out Day. The day when smokers boycott everything.

    Or make it Global Choke-out Week

  15. Smoking Lamp says:

    There are many ways to resist. Small cadres and/or an army are both options. Eventually both are likely needed as both Giap and Ho successfully demonstrated in Indochina/Vietnam. The important thing is to never surrender. You only lose when you give up. We need to remember the example of Churchill, de Gaulle, and all Maquisards.

    We must fight totalitarian controls (on smoking vaping, eating and drinking) and expose tobacco control lies and corruption in every way we can. This can range from commenting on news articles and comment boards (while they still exist), writing and calling lawmakers at all levels of government, boycotting businesses in cities that implement new bans, voting out politicians that support bans, supporting pro-choice groups (like Forest, C.L.A.S.H, Cambridge Citizens for Smokers Rights, Ban the Ban Michigan) to direct political action and civil disobedience. All are necessary means for preserving (and restoring) liberty in a free society.

  16. waltc says:

    Having been at this a while, this starts to sound like the annual “What shall we DO?” session, after which nothing much gets done. Fwiw, tho an army is the aim, a tight cadre is an easier first step (tho not as easy as you’d think) and could serve as a magnet to help attract an army. However, even a cadre needs a CIA–a central intelligence. A “Here’s The Problem; here’s what to do.” But CLASH’s experience is that few people outside the existing cadre do it. And Stephen’s right too–that most smokers bitch to each other online, but that’s all they ever do. Overcoming inertia is the first “problem.”

    On the cadre front, years ago a woman who went with the tag “Spinner” used the simple trick of establishing 6 email addresses under 6 different names to multiply her comments, letters to editors, e’s to legislators etc. Harley did it and I’m more than sure the Aunts do it all the time. But still it takes time, effort, commitment.

    People have been talking lately about videos, but thinking on an elaborate and ain’t gonna happen level. However, by now anyone with the right equipment (which is probably anyone but me with an ancient Mac) can do a video selfie. I agree with whoever said they ought to be short (15 sec) and agree with Dmitri that they ought to be people of all ages, but all with the same message and ending with a url –a CIA for action, both general and specific–and which would need someone to tend and update it. First step would be to have people submit their videos to a central clearing house (for which you’d need a Clearer) since you don’t want idiots freelancing this stuff. Next would be knowing how to post them far and wide and hope they go viral.(Anybody know?) I’ll toss out a general (not literal) idea to start others thinking: The speaker (smoking):” Hey, smokers. Tired of being treated like shit? Get off your ashes and let’s do something about it. Join us at whattodo.com “

  17. Rose says:

    Breaking the law in any way is out of the question, remember, we are the Good Guys.

  18. RdM says:

    And another off-topic, but kind of on topic:
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald/news/92459321/timaru-man-plans-petition-to-push-back-on-council-smokefree-proposal

    Comments are enabled… a rare event… but note the astounding amount of brainwashed ignorance and attitudes that resides, or resiles. I’ll try to organise some comment later.

    Maybe you can too.

    And pathetically discussed further among a non-smoking host and guests here:
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/thepanel/audio/201843655/rebellion-against-smokefree-outdoor-events

    Hardly worth listening to, but such is the quality of NZ news/magazine radio programming.

    All hosts & guests effectively brainwashed re tobacco, same on “climate change”.

    It could be depressing… ;=})

  19. beobrigitte says:

    Read this:

    THE smoking ban should be extended to include all outdoor public areas, according to health experts.

    Exclusion zones should stop smokers lighting up in parks, pub and restaurant gardens, at public events and shopping areas.

    All university campuses and schools, beaches and sports and leisure facilities should also fall under the crackdown.

    Doing so could encourage one in three smokers to switch to e-cigarettes, experts at the Royal Society for Public Health predicted.

    They are calling on the next Government to put the ban and other health measures at the forefront of their manifesto ahead of General Election.

    I thought the Ashites had been far too quiet recently. And the tories were listening. May I suggest Theresa May forms yet another coalition with the LibDems? After that at least we can bury both useless parties.

    I noticed that the word EXPERTS appears twice, which tells me that the anti-smokers are well aware of the fact that they no longer impress people. Perhaps it is that after 10 years of smoking ban and countless ASHites jubilant orgasms about how ‘well-the-bans-work”, the public has not benefited at all – quite the opposite. The NHS can’t cope and old people (termed bed-blockers) are ferried out of the hospitals far quicker than is good for them. My guess is that we just can’t die quick enough for Tobacco control create a new credibility.
    They picked the wrong “experts” (they picked them because these “experts” sheepishly regurgitate what has been fed to them); I am an expert in the subject of smoking by 48 years of smoking experience!!
    The Royal Society for Public Health needs to get it’s priorities right. Smokers are the least of their problems, old peoples’ diseases + antibiotic resistant bugs are. (The latter will wreak havoc).
    In any case, respect for the medical profession is waning. The number of people ready to sue for medical errors/malpractice is steadily rising the further the medical profession removes itself from the Hippocrates Oath.

    I am a smoker and stand up to be counted.

    • Jay says:

      I don’t know if this is part of the Hippocratic Oath but isn’t there something about “first do no harm”? It could be argued that they, in denying smokers access to smoking in hospitals, do a great deal of harm.

      • beobrigitte says:

        “Do no harm” most certainly is part of it.
        The problem is that “jump on no band wagon” is not.
        Currently the medical profession does a great deal of harm. FORCING dubious ‘medication’ down smokers’ throats in order to ‘justify’ treatment for smokers (for whatever medical issue the smoker has) because the Pharma rep says so is one of the many big violations of the Hippocratic Oath.

        I believe the Americans have a Heroin problem due to a prescribed painkiller which is more expensive than heroin. I also read that smoking is to blame for that problem.
        The medical profession perhaps could explain the addictive nature of this painkiller away?

        We need to ask questions. A lot of them.

  20. Clicky says:

  21. Pingback: Missive From ‘Merica: Have A Tissue For Your Issue – Library of Libraries

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