Blackmailing NHS

Mail:

Three million refused NHS ops… for smoking or being too fat: Third of trusts deny routine procedures including hip and knee replacements to overweight patients

One in eight NHS trusts will not fund routine operations for smokers

Figures from Royal College of Surgeons will raise concerns that managers are withholding vital treatment

NHS budget under huge strain from ageing population and soaring cost of new drugs

But College warns smokers and overweight are being seen as easy targets

Up to three million patients are being refused NHS operations unless they lose weight or quit smoking, an investigation reveals.

A third of health trusts deny hip and knee replacements, varicose vein repair and other routine procedures to anyone considered too fat.

And one in eight will not fund these operations for smokers, instead offering them nicotine gum, patches and advice on how to quit. The figures, obtained by the Royal College of Surgeons, will raise concerns that managers are withholding vital treatment from patients considered ‘undeserving’.

One thing I’ve realised in recent years about state-funded medicine is that it can be used to blackmail people: Do what we tell you, or you don’t get treatment. And this is what this is: blackmail.

And smoking and obesity are quite likely just the thin end of the wedge. Next it’ll be alcohol and chocolate and tea and coffee. They can – and probably will – demand anything they want.

In ancient Greece one physician would only treat the sick if they agreed to become his slaves.

If nothing else, it’s a strong argument in favour of private medicine, where you get what you pay for.

Prince steals the show:

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About Frank Davis

smoker
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26 Responses to Blackmailing NHS

  1. Harleyrider1978 says:

    Just like VA care for veterans a slice at a time if your willing to wait forever

  2. Smoking Lamp says:

    They should refund the taxes on tobacco and the portion of taxes on smokers used for health care since those taxes fund the bulk of the NHS regime anyway.

  3. Timothy Goodacre says:

    Smokers pay substantially for the NHS and should get gold star treatment.

  4. Lecroix says:

    Reblogged this on Contra la ley "antitabaco" and commented:
    Si no logramos poner freno al extremismo antitabaco, pronto en España también la Seguridad Social se negará a atender a las personas que fuman, beben o están obesas. Es cuestión de tiempo nada más. Debemos ser conscientes del peligro de la ideología antitabaco, involucrarnos e involucrar a los demás en la lucha contra este fenómeno radical, intolerante y destructivo.

  5. Barry Homan says:

    Anyone engaged in any form of dangerous sport or pastime should also be refused treatment: boxing, skiing, mountain-climbing, rugby, etc

    • Harleyrider1978 says:

      Driving or riding a school bus or walking they might fall!

      • Joe L. says:

        Exactly — there’s no reasonable way to classify an activity or lifestyle as “dangerous” or “risky.” The slope is far too slippery. The act of living is inherently “dangerous.”

  6. Andy Oakley says:

    The answer is take up Vaping and leave the nightmare that are smoking restrictions and health dangers and healthcare denial.

    Simple

    • Joe L. says:

      Simple??? Far from simple. Almost every smoking ban in the U.S. also encompasses e-cigarettes, so vapers do deal with the exact same restrictions as smokers. As far as “health dangers” are concerned, look no further than the WHO to tell you that vaping is “no safer than smoking.” It’s only a matter of time before vapers face the same healthcare denial as smokers. Self-righteous, pro-vaping/anti-smoking attitudes like yours are detrimental to smokers and vapers alike. Smokers and vapers need to band together to fight for our freedoms. Wake up or troll elsewhere.

      • slugbop007 says:

        Vapers have just been included in an amendment to the Quebec anti-tobacco law. They have been banned from vaping in any ‘aire de jeu’ (playground, hockey arena, baseball/soccer field, you name it, where children play. etc) throughout the province, along with tobacco smokers. The nine meter rule also applies. Whatever that is.
        The new Premier of Quebec used to be our Health Minister about nine years ago. Here is a flashback from his original ban on bars and restaurants:
        Anti-puffing spies to police Quebec smoking ban
        Quebec Health Minister Philippe Couillard has acknowledged there will be “undercover” inspectors in the province’s bars and restaurants to make sure a new anti-smoking law is enforced when it comes into effect May 31.
        The new legislation will ban smoking in all public indoor places, including bars and restaurants.
        Some critics say the province has not hired enough inspectors to ensure compliance with the new law, but Couillard says that’s not true.
        “The municipal police can also be used if the municipalities give them the authority,” he said Wednesday. “They are under their jurisdiction. They can certainly work in collaboration with the inspectors.”

        In the not too distant future I expect to see antismoking patrols much like those in the Philippines and Singapore in the streets of Montreal if nothing is done to stop this movement.
        Our Premier professes to be a Liberal but he behaves like a Fascist. Sieg Heil Phil!

  7. Andy Oakley says:

    Smokers have had nearly a decade to band together to fight for their freedoms , they decided not to do anything.

    Vapers have their own fight which will only be bogged down by carrying the lost cause that is smoking along with them, Vapers are strong, numerous, vocal and will and have taken part in direct action.

    Vaping is not smoking , I can understand why a tiny number of smoking activists want to attach themselves to the giant that is vaping lobbying and get carried along for the ride with the hope of changing smokers fortunes.

    Forget it, Vapers have a strong argument and a good chance of victory in their battles, if smokers had the slightest chance of any victories they should have done something in the last 10 years about it.

    • waltc says:

      Andy, are you three years old? That would be the only excuse for your ignorance about the fight smokers put up –at least in America, dunno about the UK. Smokers lobbied, met with pols at all levels (city, state, federal) testified at hearings in large numbers, got up petitions with thousands of signatures and filed scores of lawsuis– baby. And smokers, btw, are now and always were far more “numerous” than vapers. Clearly, as a vaper, you were once a smoker–one of the mealy-mouthed who “decided to do nothing.” (whete were you when the lighters went out?) So now you don’t want to be bogged down by us, eh? Then I regret having already fought on your behalf and can now sit back waiting with schadenfreude while you, in your naïveté, underestimate your enemy and overestimate the power of logic in the fight.

  8. Andy Oakley says:

    Yeah your “dunno about the UK” is quite obvious, there is a real Vaping grass roots movement actually working with Retailers/producers/users that actually get off their backsides and feel the cold air on their faces at demonstrations and events, real people meeting real people.

    Fighting on your behalf /heeding our advice/ they wouldn’t listen are much used phrases by smokers against Vapers which bears no resemblance to the truth or facts that smokers have done next to nothing to help themselves never mind anyone else.

    Simon Clark is the weapon of choice for smokers in the UK and thats all it has been and will be for smokers, the industry led fight againt advertising branding on cigarette packs is just that , there has been a fairly large campaign on this issue which of course has nothing to do with smoking or the smoking ban but commercial litigation dressed up as a smokers fight againt the smoking ban.

    Vapers last petition to the Government raised 3 times more signatures than a similar smoking one, I’m sick and tired of the same old phrases trotted out from wise old smokers to heed and listen to them, when infact there is nothing to back it up with but a bedroom led revolution that remained where it started.

  9. Timothy Goodacre says:

    What is this moron Andy Oakley doing on our smoking site. Another tosspot vaper !

  10. irocyr says:

    Oh Andy Oakley please do get a clue. Smokers fought smoking bans all over the world including the UK and it was not just Simon Clark. Have you ever heard of the Freedom2Choose organization, of TICAP and its two international conferences that attracted attendees from all over the world including myself from Canada? On the Brussels Declaration on Scientific Integrity which was one result of these conferences? Of Nick Hogan who was jailed over defying the ban in his business and a couple more who I can’t remember their name now ? Of business owners that specifically banned members of the parliament from entering their premises? And much much more in the last 10 years I have been active in this issue and which I can’t remember off the top of my head.

    Smokers have been there and done what you are now experiencing with vaping with the only difference that vapers are backed by some very vocal individuals in the medical profession because vaping is anti-smoking and therefore it is considered virtuous by some of those supporting it. It is also financially supported by what has become a very lucrative market, the vaping merchants that dish out the money to try to save their businesses. If smokers had taken tobacco industry money to better further their cause they would have been condemned on the outset as tobacco industry stooges. Smokers were underfinanced and politically underrepresented. But don’t count your chickens just yet, the forces against even what resembles smoking are very powerful and we see it every day all over the world. Vapers are losing battles on a regular basis and at a much faster pace than smokers did. Smokers do not need vapers’ help, but those who can see through the corruption and anti-smoker shenanigans very clearly, don’t need ignorant vapers (and there is still a good number of them) to piggyback and perpetuate the antis’ lies and propaganda to gain points for their cause, Vapers can’t help smokers, but smokers CAN and try to help vapers not make the same mistakes and show them what they must’n do in order to have a chance of winning some battles for themselves. If you consider that asking for help, you are sadly mistaken. It is the other way around.

  11. Andy Oakley says:

    I’m sure if you give it some more time irocyr you can pull up some more “fights” other than the one and only pub meet up, and the landlord ignoring the ban over the last decade in UK, I am sure there was once a gathering outside a train station once with a few banners against the ban.

    This has been the reason for failure for smokers without any mention of “health matters”, the smoking public except a few online lobbyists didn’t want to be involved in a movement to fight the ban, my opinion is becasue they had sympathy with it.

    Vapers can see problems ahead, thats why there is a real grass roots movement against these problems, its just ludicrous that smoking lobbyists who failed completely see themselves as wise old heads dishing out advice to naive vapers.

    I checked out f reedom2choose, I saw the pub meet pics 2011, the last post on the forum in 2008, and the sparse blog with hardly any comments, old banners on the website from years ago and couldn’t findy any banners about issues from the last few years about smoking., the last newsletter from 2013
    I belive thats the only UK smokers forum?, the only independant organisation for smokers?, sums it up completely in the UK

    Save your advice , smokers help , smokers attaching themselves to Vaping is the last thing we want, Vaping is not smoking and links to smoking are not welcome.

    • irocyr says:

      Have it your way Andy. I for one will be standing by watching to see how much better you will do with your kind of attitude and strategies. By the way you may have missed http://www.tctactics.org and all those involved in this fight . I have no more time or energy to fight with you or the likes of you. I have enough of fighting the professional corrupt anti-smokers without having to fight former smoker anti-smokers that fell for the propaganda hook line & sinker and continue to think they will beat corruption by aligning on the side of the corrupt. Good luck.

    • Frank Davis says:

      This has been the reason … the smoking public except a few online lobbyists didn’t want to be involved in a movement to fight the ban, my opinion is becasue they had sympathy with it.

      That wasn’t my experience. Virtually all the smokers I’ve known hated the ban, but they didn’t think there was a single thing they could do about it. I spent quite a while trying to get people to do something, do anything. But the answer I always got was: “It’s pointless.”

      I don’t take much interest in e-cigs these days. I’ve got a couple that I hardly ever use. For a while it looked like e-cigs might be a legal alternative to smoking in pubs and restaurants, but now that Tobacco Control (with a few exceptions) is saying that vaping is just as dangerous as smoking, and serves to re-normalise smoking because it “looks like smoking”, vaping is being banned too, and so I’ll stick with cigarettes – which I prefer anyway. So while I wish vapers well, I expect to see vapers and vaping lumped in together with smokers and smoking, regardless of whether vapers think that vaping is “healthier” than smoking (a bit like what pot smokers claim about pot).

      I think that vapers are going to find out the hard way that they’re not up against a enemy that’s in the least bit concerned with either scientific truth or physical health, but is instead prepared to tell any lie and perpetrate any fraud in order to get their way. Because that’s what the Tobacco Control lie machine did with tobacco (as you seem not to have noticed).

      • Andy Oakley says:

        There may well be blurred lines regarding science/ health over smoking that can be used as propagander or even lies as in the case of SHS, but the truth that smoking kills and is damaging to your health has not been manipulated by an evil tobacco control conspiracy sitting around a boardroom table, its millions of smokers who provide that evidence and truth.

        It is this evidence that was the reason for your “its pointless” responses frank.

        Vapers may well lose the fight , may find out the hard way, but please smokers don’t re-write the history of the fight against the smoking ban as badges of honour which means you warriors are the fountains of knowledge and wisdom, cos that pisses Vapers off.

        Smokers have changed nothing/won nothing/ nor gained public support/ nor have an organised lobby…the failure list just goes on and on.

        • Frank Davis says:

          …its millions of smokers who provide that evidence and truth. It is this evidence that was the reason for your “its pointless” responses frank.

          Smokers themselves provide no evidence whatsoever. And the reason that that my smoking friends were saying that “it’s pointless” was because they had no belief that anyone would pay any attention to them if they protested or wrote letters or did anything else whatever. They wouldn’t have protested or written letters about anything else either, smoking related or not.

          And anyway, the history of the fight against smoking bans won’t be written for a very long time. Did cannabis smokers protest in the 1920s when cannabis was made illegal? Did they have an organised lobby? Or public support? Not that I know of. But coming up on 100 years later, they’re overturning cannabis laws in several US states.

  12. irocyr says:

    Frank, my reply to the anti did not show up. Is it queued up somewhere because it contains a link do you think?

  13. Pingback: Peep ‘Ole REGN… Oo’er MRS! – Library of Libraries

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