Complete Disbeliever

Dick Puddlecote asks:

Could Tobacco Control Extremism Help Us Get Out Of The EU?

I certainly hope so. But he’s actually talking about…

the EU’s updated Tobacco Products Directive (TPD2) – which regulates e-cigs to within an inch of their life…

E-cigs being…

The innovation to help smokers quit that could save millions of lives is being held back by EU rules.

If you are one of the country’s three million vapers, or you know somebody who you would like to quit smoking, then you should vote ‘Leave’ in the EU referendum.

But I don’t wish to stop smoking, and so I don’t want any “help”, thank you very much. But if vapers have cause to vote to leave the EU, smokers have just as much. Because the EU declared war on smokers in 2009.

It was this above all that swung me from being pro-EU to anti-EU. Why should a smoker like me want to stay in the EU when they were enacting measures like this:

Shock trials: The EU states will be encouraged to carry out sensationalist prosecutions designed to shock the public. Celebrities who smoke will also be targeted and exposed publicly as smoking offenders. The document states that if individuals in the public eye have deliberately disregarded the law and this is publicly known, the authorities will demonstrate their commitment to and the seriousness of the legislation by reacting with rigorous and speedy measures, attracting the widest possible public attention.

So both smokers and vapers have good reason to vote to leave the EU.

I must say that I take little interest in e-cigs these days. I’ve got one, but I never use it. I prefer smoking the real thing. And I no longer believe any of the health warnings about tobacco: I’ve become a complete disbeliever.

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34 Responses to Complete Disbeliever

  1. harleyrider1978 says:

    aside from that it appears austrias legislative branch voted today to hold their own brexit vote.

    All things aside weve now heard of at least 6-8 countries wanting basically out of the EU. In all fairness it pretty well means the EU is over with.

    • Frank Davis says:

      Swiss Parliament decides to withdraw the application to join the EU

      Today is the end of an era for the Europhiles: For years Switzerland has had a request pending to join the Union. But today the country quietly let that application lapse. Its citizens can all see for themselves one of the differences between being in the EU or being outside it.

      Switzerland applied to join the European Union on 16 Mai 1992. In Brussels, the Government of Switzerland signed an official application to join the EU. The signatures have never been suspended and the application was not formally withdrawn. Switzerland has been applying for EU membership for 24 years.

      The people voted in different referendums against becoming closer to the greedy EU law. But the Government said, the people’s vote did not oblige them to stop accession negotiations with the EU and in future the situation could change. Europhiles have warned for years about the dangers of Switzerland remaining outside the EU. But today Switzerland is stronger and freer as a result of being outside, rather than inside the EU. Independence and non-bureaucratic flexibility is an important part of the Swiss success. Today Swiss polls find those keen on EU membership dwindling in the 5 per cents and today there is an important change in Swiss politics that has been controversially disputed for many years:

    • Frank Davis says:

      Schengen collapse will wipe €28bn from Europe’s economies

      1 MARCH 2016

      Europe could see €28bn wiped off the value of its economies as it faces the imminent collapse of the Schengen system of open borders, according to a leading investment bank.

      Up to 0.2pc of the European Union’s GDP could be erased as a result of the spiralling costs of cross-border travel and disruption to internal trade that would return in a post-Schengen Europe, Morgan Stanley warned.

      The bank’s analysts estimate a 5pc surge in the cost of cross-border travel, while trade flows between countries could fall by up to 20pc as border checks and waiting times are reintroduced to Europe.

      Unlike the process of negotiating an EU exit for Britain, Morgan Stanley said a chaotic dismantling of the 30-year old passport-free zone would plunge the EU into political turmoil.

  2. harleyrider1978 says:

    But a bigger picture evolves if and when the EU is done. Does it leave the WHO and its tenacles cut off and an end to their WORLDWIDE WAR on everyone. Hopefully it will end lifestyle warfare and force them to return to the mundane duties for which they were created, disease vectoring and helping control diseases of famine and insects besides human born contagions. Youd think thatd be enuf for anyone to deal with and its completely within a scope we and everyone would agree with. But the WHO has been made a weapon against freedom not a humanitarian medical group it was meant to be,but then again maybe the humanitarian part was but a Guise to get the UN and its agenda agreed to by the parties in 1948 as we remember wilsons league sure had no support after its edicts of control were read,nobody wanted in.

  3. harleyrider1978 says:

    You Won’t Get Arrested for Public Boozing (or Urinating) in Manhattan Anymore

    But smoking still illegal for fucks sake

  4. jaxthefirst says:

    I must admit to a wry smile whenever I hear vapers whining about how unfair anti-vaping rules are. It isn’t as if they weren’t warned, and it isn’t as if they (as ex-smokers) haven’t been here before, is it? If only they’d had the forethought to join ranks with already-besieged smokers rather than “siding with the enemy” in the hope that they could curry favour with the anti-smoking fanatics, then they could have stopped the health puritans dead in their tracks by – as, now, non-smokers – actively challenging all the anti-tobacco “science,” “facts,” and “proof,” as well as arguing against ever-greater restrictions against smokers. This would have struck very real fear into the hearts of the very people who have now turned their sights onto vapers – the “converted” doubting the zealots’ words being, after all, the greatest threat to their very credibility – and would have kept them well occupied defending their position against those whom they thought they had already won over to their side and trying desperately not to lose ground which they thought they’d already secured.

    But no. Like drinkers, chocoholics and junk-food eaters, they preferred to bury their heads in the sand and believe the hollow promises of the anti-smokers that “there was no slippery slope” and that “this will only apply to smokers, because smoking is a uniquely dangerous product,” and they obediently followed the instructions of the “experts” and gave up smoking. They may fool themselves that they’re being terribly rebellious and non-conformist by not doing it the way the zealots told them to (ooh, naughty!), but the fact is they are still doing as they are told and, worse still, at the same time they’ve deluded themselves into thinking that they’ve “got away with it,” because they’ve found something to replace smoking which isn’t NRT or cold turkey. Well, whoopee do!

    But they haven’t “got away with it,” have they, as the EU’s TPD shows only too clearly. And they haven’t for the simple reason that they missed their golden opportunity to do so the moment they turned their backs on their erstwhile smoking companions. I realise that there are a few notable exceptions to this and that there are a few vapers who still feel as passionately about the unfairness of the smoking ban and the shabby treatment of smokers as they did in their smoking days, but the majority, sadly, seem to be nothing but a bunch of capitulating drones who are just as willing to let “their betters” do their thinking for them as any ex-smoker who quit using one of the “approved” methods.

    If drinkers are sensible they will take due note of the vapers’ big mistake and not make the same one.

    • Roobeedoo2 says:

      Yep, the majority so wrapped up in the virtuousness in switching to vaping, they are shocked when things like this happen:

      • Some French bloke says:

        The latest comment on that International Business Times article goes: “Here is a credible study done by the UK version of the FDA. E cigs 95% LESS harmful than cigarettes.”

        And so we’re back to the original claim of smokers incurring a x20 higher risk for conditions like lung cancer… Here we can see new, outrageous claims function as a ploy aimed at reinforcing older claims, that are more essential to the brainwashing campaign: as a result of this, the EPA and other official agencies’ usual pronouncements sound quite sedate, their “research” is supposed to be rigorous, and their recommendations (which gradually morphed into diktats) can be deemed admissible. It’s as if the ‘boy who cried wolf’ just had to warn of imaginary dragons to regain credibility…

  5. Lepercolonist says:

    “Celebrities who smoke will also be targeted and exposed publicly as smoking offenders.”

    Keith Richards and Ronnie Wood smoke onstage whenever they wish. They don’t care about some stupid smoking ban. At worse, they pay a fine. Does the EU think they will cancel a Rolling Stone concert when Keith lights up? A riot would ensue.

    • Frank Davis says:

      Keith Richards and Ronnie Wood smoke onstage whenever they wish.

      Can they? Do they? I have no idea whether they do or not. They’re certainly never shown smoking in any recent video clips of the Stones that I’ve seen.

  6. prog says:

    Further to my comment on previous post


    • Frank Davis says:

      Are we all supposed to become misogynists or something?

      I like girls.

      • Rose says:

        I am glad about that, Frank. : )

      • Roobeedoo2 says:

        I agree with Rose, but I don’t think that’s the point the video is making, Frank. In it’s broad strokes, I agreed with it.

        Rome fell but survives to this day as an male dominated/ruled entity – the Catholic Church. Priests and nuns are celibate, right?

      • prog says:

        No, just to recognise that there is a very powerful, man-hating, feminist global movement that is causing mayhem. Generally, men don’t hate women any more than most women hate them, but the western male species is gradually being emasculated.

        Anyway, my missus made me post that vid ;).

    • Rose says:

      Relatively small potatoes in most eyes, but TC wouldn’t have thrived without the feminine touch

      Prog, you really shouldn’t underestimate the achievements of men in Tobacco Control, they certainly wouldn’t thank you for it.

      After all, who can forget Liam Donaldson?

      “Liam Donaldson was England’s chief medical officer for more than a decade, from 1998 to 2010. His greatest achievement was to bring about the ban on smoking in public places despite opposition from the government of the day”

      Professor Ian Gilmore?

      Gilmore: ‘One could end up looking evangelical’
      By James Wilmore, 26-Jun-2008

      “It is a little-known fact, but the Royal College of Physicians, where Professor Ian Gilmore is currently president, founded the group Action on Smoking and Health (ASH)

      “IT was in 1962 that our work started on a ban – it was 45 years before we got it”,he says.”
      http: //

      And not forgetting the mightiest anti-smoking CMO of them all.

      “Godber recollected that he had said in 1962 to Keith Joseph, another of his Conservative ministers, that “we really have to do something about abolishing smoking”
      Joseph looked quite shocked and said: “You really can’t expect to abolish smoking.”
      “Godber replied: “No, but I want to see it reduced to an activity of consenting adults in private.”

      Clive Bates, it was under his tenure that the legal opinion on the “date of guilty knowledge” under the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974 was sought.

      “In 1998 ASH obtained a legal opinion from John Melville Williams QC which suggests that the date of guilty knowledge in respect of SHS would be likely to be held by the Courts to be some time in the early 1990s.”
      http: //

      Which frightened the hospitality industry into compliance.

      A feminine touch would be hard to detect and it was Godber who started “the children”.

      • prog says:

        TBF, I didn’t claim that women sparked it all off but it’s all too often that Arnott et al (e.g government health ministers) are the public face of TC. And they exploit female sentimentality, particularly when it comes down to ‘for the sake of the children’. And let’s not forget that most smokers are male, and always have been.

        • prog says:

          Also, in my experience, women are far more likely to be vocally anti than men. I think, for the most part, that they don’t want their children to be corrupted by filthy smokers. I’ve seen it with my own sister and female acquaintances.

        • Rose says:

          I think your reading far too much into it, Prog.
          Yes, these days in Britain at least, TC does seem to use female mouthpieces, but then again so do ads for toothpaste.

    • west2 says:

      This video is in contrast to Anita Sarkeesean’s analysis where in one of her talks she described the situation, regarding women, in systemic terms (based on Bell Hooks’ work I believe). She is probably right, though from an opposing point of view, and expects a different outcome. Prof Fiamengo has examined various related issues in more detail in the Fianmengo File videos on youtube.

      Also on youtube, Sargon of Akkad made an interesting video on Collectivists/Individualists which examines situations from an in/out group perspective. The ideas on collectivists can be directly applied to tobacco control.

      I read a comment the other day suggesting Tobacco Control was a Social Justice issue. That made sense given the changing language within Public Health.

      This is all very problematic ;)

      • Mr A says:

        Yes, I’ve been fighting TC for close on a decade now but it was only recently, with the rise of the Social Justice Warrior, that I too have seen that it is all one big tentacled mess. Warmist, pro-migrant, leftist, anti-smoking – as collectivist, authoritarian, Cultural Marxists they are all very much the freedom of the individual to choose, so smoking is most definitely a SJW issue….. but defeat them in one sphere and the whole edifice will come down.

  7. Timothy Goodacre says:

    Yes its the real thing for me too. I’m not interested in e cigs at all.

  8. Clicky says:

  9. Frank Davis says:


    Donald Trump supercharged his hostile takeover of the Republican Party on Super Tuesday, scoring big wins in at least seven states as he threatened to break away from his GOP rivals in the delegate chase.

    Ted Cruz kept hold of his home state of Texas and won neighboring Oklahoma and Alaska. And Marco Rubio saved his campaign from a dispiriting disaster, as he carried Minnesota’s caucuses for his first win on an otherwise brutal night.

  10. harleyrider1978 says:
  11. Good stuff, is it true about other countries have their own exit votes? I had heard bits and pieces but the BBC sadly doesn’t have the time or space to mention minor issues like that.

    • Frank Davis says:

      I found this:

      Hungary’s national election board has endorsed a referendum question proposed by the government to reject a European Union quota plan for the resettlement of migrants and refugees.

      The government says the referendum, unlikely to be held within less than four months, is needed because the EU is trying to make decisions which would diminish Hungary’s sovereignty.

      The question proposed for the referendum is whether Hungarians want the EU to settle non-Hungarians in the country without consent from Hungary’s parliament.

      Prime Minister Viktor Orban’s government is adamantly opposed to taking in migrants and has sued the EU over its initial plan to redistribute 160,000 migrants from Greece and Italy.

  12. Frank Davis says:

    THE DAY THE EU FELL APART: Leaders rip chunks out of each other on worst day of migrant chaos

  13. Every one knows that cigarettes are injurious and still most people keep smoking. Those who intend to quit they should start with e-Cigarettes in the initially & then slowly slowly quit in the coming days. I am so passionate about not being poisoned any more. After I smoked my last cigarette, I cried tears of joy for an hour. I am so thankful to God for helping me to achieve my goal of being a happy non-smoker! Thanks for sharing.

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