Is Meat Murder?

I’ve been vaguely thinking about Kerry McCarthy.


Meat should be treated like tobacco with a public campaign to stop people eating it, Jeremy Corbyn’s new vegan shadow farming minister has suggested…

In an interview with Viva!life, a magazine for vegans, she admitted she was a “militant” when it came to clamping down on meat consumption.

She said: “I really believe that meat should be treated in exactly the same way as tobacco, with public campaigns to stop people eating it.

“Progress on animal welfare is being made at EU level… but in the end it comes down to not eating meat or dairy.

“The constant challenging of the environmental impact of livestock farming is making me more and more militant.

This seems to suggest it’s about environmental protection and animal welfare.

I dunno, but it seems to me that about the best protection a plant or animal species can get is to become a human staple food. You’ll get protected from predators and diseases. You’ll get veterinary care. You may even get your own cowsheds or stables. Your numbers will multiply enormously. And you’ll die a very sudden death, rather than a slow, painful, lingering one.

Bristol Evening Post:

Ms McCarthy told the Post that it was an individual’s choice whether they wanted to eat meat or not.

But she said the point she was trying to make was that people should be aware of the consequences of eating meat – especially if it was processed – where it came from and how it was produced.

She said we do the same with alcohol by pointing out to people the effects of drinking too much and we should be doing more to inform people about meat.

She said: “I am not trying to tell people what they should or shouldn’t eat.

But she is. Or rather, she wants somebody else to tell people what they should or shouldn’t eat. These people always get somebody else to do their dirty work for them.

“But they should know what the risks are without them being swept under the carpet.

“There a lot of sensible scientists and experts out there that there are risks associated with meat, particularly processed, and that is something that shouldn’t be ignored.”

Not about the environment and animal welfare after all. Instead, it’s now about ‘risks’ associated with meat-eating. And once they want to find ‘risks’ they’ll manufacture them just like they manufacture the risks for everything else: like e-cigarettes. They can invent risks overnight.

But actually, I bet her real objection to meat-eating is a moral one. “Meat is murder,” she’d probably say. And you shouldn’t commit murder.

Well, let’s suppose that it is murder. If so, isn’t eating fruits and vegetables murder as well? For they are living things too. And at least we ensure that the animals we eat are dead before we consume them. But we eat many of our plants alive, frequently after chopping them into tiny pieces. And we kill many of the others (e.g. potatoes) by boiling or roasting them alive. It’s worse than murder: it’s torture and murder. It’s like the ancient punishment of hanging, drawing, and quartering.

And what are we to make a natural world in which herbivores are murdering plants, and carnivores are murdering herbivores? Aren’t plants murdering the earth by driving roots into it, and sucking it dry of water? Aren’t they mining it – exploiting it – as efficiently as any coal or gold mine? If humans are to be found guilty of mass murder, shouldn’t the entire natural world be put in the dock beside them?

But murder only entails killing. Most murderers don’t eat their victims. They merely want them dead. One reads from time to time of shipwreck survivors on open boats, killing and eating each other. Courts generally recognise that, if they hadn’t done so, nobody would have survived at all, and don’t treat them as cases of plain murder.

It hasn’t quite happened yet, but it seems to me possible that we could one day mass-produce proteins and fats and sugars and vitamins from carbon, hydrogen, and other elements, to provide ourselves with all the food we need, without relying on plants and animals any more. We could probably even produce synthetic beefsteaks and lamb chops indistinguishable from the real thing. In fact, we could even create exotic new meat products. Anyone for six foot woolly mammoth or brontosaurus steaks?

I’ve argued that slavery died out when we no longer needed slaves, and had largely replaced them with engines. The same will probably happen one day with our plant and animal foods, when they’re replaced by completely synthetic foods. It’ll become a crime to kill and eat a chicken, or to boil a potato. Or to cut flowers.

And then all the farms will close down. And, lacking the human care on which they depend, wheat and potatoes and rice will  die out, as will cattle and sheep and pigs. The last sheep will die a century later, torn to pieces and eaten by a wolf pack. And the surface of the the earth will have reverted by then to impenetrable jungle.

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50 Responses to Is Meat Murder?

  1. harleyrider1978 says:

    I wonder how she feels about canabalism……………likely loves it

  2. harleyrider1978 says:

    Medical journal’s bogus investigation could derail better dietary guidelines

    Every five years, the US government issues new dietary guidelines for Americans. These guidelines have a big impact on food labeling and scientific research, as…

  3. Clicky says:

  4. jaxthefirst says:

    “Meat should be treated like tobacco …”

    They just can’t help themselves, can they? These new kids on the block so want to emulate their dictatorial heroes in the anti-smoking movement that they see comparing anything to tobacco means that the gullible public will think: “Crikey! It’s as bad as tobacco? Better quit immediately, then!” and will dutifully do as they are told.

    It’s like the comparison to tobacco is the health zealots’ “trump card” which will overcome any potential arguments. The problem is, trump cards are just that – as any card-player will tell you, you don’t play your trump card straight away. You keep it safely in your hand until you really, really need it (or have no option but to use it). In this instance, to continue the analogy, using this “trump card” so early on in the argument indicates that the speaker knows full well how weak and insubstantial that argument is, and therefore has no alternative but to bring on the “clincher” before anyone’s even responded, backing it up not only with the comparison but also by mimicking the very same tactics used by Tobacco Control step by step (the first step, of course, being to convince the hard-of-thinking that they are killing themselves, which is, of course, where Tobacco Control first started. We all know where it goes after that …)

    But I love it when these folks shoehorn in the old “as bad as tobacco” or “similar to tobacco” meme, because effectively, whenever they say that, it brings Big Bad Tobacco a step closer to being no worse than a bacon sarnie, or a pint of beer a day, or living beside a main road, and over time that message must surely mean that eventually the public will come to realise, not that we are all harming ourselves and each other through all the myriad things we’ve been doing for centuries (which is the intended reaction) – there is, after all, a limit to the number of things which people can practically give up – but that in fact we haven’t been harming ourselves and others through smoking tobacco any more than we’ve being harming ourselves and others by cooking beefburgers, drinking wine, or consuming more than one cup of coffee a day. Result!

  5. waltc says:

    The biggest killer of animals is… Animals. Just watch any nature show. Usually animals kill animals for food, but sometimes for mates (sex) and sometimes in a struggle for power. I suggest this lady try her lectures on a lion, preferably when she’s alone and unarmed. Of course the other new twist on the don’t eat meat thing is that it’s bad for the environment and causes global warming. These people come at you from every heart-tugging angle they can think of.

  6. jltrader says:

    Hundreds of animal rights activists covered themselves in fake blood and sprawled across a public square in Paris to protest against ‘animal suffering and meat consumption’ today.
    The demonstration was organised by the 269 Life campaign group as part of the World Day for the Abolition of Meat, which has taken place every year since 2009.

    Read more:

  7. Zaphod says:

    I’ve been a veggie for over 40 years. Purely personal choice. I just don’t like meat. If I did, I’d eat it.
    Even if it had “health risks”.
    Those who like meat should eat it. Those who don’t, need not.

    When I was younger, there was a temptation to be righteous about it. But I grew out of it quite quickly.
    I also stopped fretting about traces of meat products. I believe in the “Hygiene Hypothesis”.
    We need regular exposure to everything in the environment, to keep the immune system fit.

    For a species to really thrive, it needs to be useful to man, and also capable of being owned.
    That’s why cattle, wheat, and tobacco thrive, but cod, elephants, and truffles struggle.


  8. Ian Johnson says:

    Will she be preaching this to Muslims?

  9. Rose says:

    Of course the other new twist on the don’t eat meat thing is that it’s bad for the environment and causes global warming. These people come at you from every heart-tugging angle they can think of Walt

    Making meat socially unacceptable.

    Lord Stern: ‘People should give up eating meat to halt climate change’
    27 Oct 2009

    “Lord Stern, author of the 2006 Stern Review on the cost of tackling global warming, predicts that eating meat could in the future become as socially unacceptable as drink driving.”

    ” Lord Stern, a former chief economist of the World Bank, believes that the Climate Change Conference in Copenhagen in December should call for an increase in the price of meat and other foods that contribute to climate change.

    In an interview with The Times, he said: “Meat is a wasteful use of water and creates a lot of greenhouse gases. It puts enormous pressure on the world’s resources. A vegetarian diet is better.”

    “New climate change targets to cut greenhouse gases by 80 per cent by 2050 will require farms to reduce methane produced by cows, cut use of fossil fuels and use less polluting fertilisers.”

    Governmental reaction –

    “It all began when officials at the Department of Health decided to part-fund a piece of independent research looking at how health professionals could help combat the effects of climate change.
    The scientists came up with a rather courageous idea. Why not kill 30% of Britain’s cows and sheep?

    Not only would this help save the environment; it would also make us healthier.
    The theory goes like this: if you have less ruminant livestock, you emit less climate-damaging methane into the atmosphere.

    You also have less meat to eat, which means less saturated fat in our diets and thus less heart disease.”

    Which as we now know is based on a fraudulent study from the 50’s, which was inspired by a Russian feeding fat to rabbits in 1913 and which subsequently became gospel in America and around the world.

    “The idea that saturated fat is unhealthy has been around since the 1950s, when Ancel Keys began publishing research showing a link between saturated fat and heart disease.”

    “When Keys published his research, he included data from seven countries that showed a saturated-fats/heart-disease link. But he left out the data from 22 additional countries that largely dispelled that theory.”
    http: //

    “In 1988, the surgeon general, C. Everett Koop, proclaimed ice cream to a be public-health menace right up there with cigarettes. Alluding to his office’s famous 1964 report on the perils of smoking, Dr. Koop announced that the American diet was a problem of “comparable” magnitude, chiefly because of the high-fat foods that were causing coronary heart disease and other deadly ailments.

    He introduced his report with these words: “The depth of the science base underlying its findings is even more impressive than that for tobacco and health in 1964.”
    http: //

    So even though the heart attack/saturated fat theory has recently been found to be a 60 year old damaging nonsense, it’s residual effects haven’t yet had time to clear from the political consciousness.

    So on past form, I think that it’s safe to say that things will get considerably worse before they get better.

    • harleyrider1978 says:

      “Obama secretly gives billions to UN global warming” Senator Inhofe

      Hello, I am Senator Jim Inhofe, Republican Senator from Oklahoma, Ranking Member of the Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works, and chief critic of President Obama’s far left green agenda
      Over the past decade, I have been leading the charge in Washington to make sure the global warming hoax is exposed. A big part of that effort has been putting the spotlight on what takes place at the UN’s annual global warming conferences. While I have been unable to travel to the last few conferences, I have counted on groups like CFACT to provide “on the ground” reports. This year’s UN conference is in Doha, Qatar and I’m pleased that Lord Christopher Monckton is there working with his partners, including CFACT Executive Director Craig Rucker and Marc Morano of ClimateDepotdotcom. I’m certainly looking forward to the release of Climate Depot’s new report that debunks the alarmists’ extreme weather claims.
      The last time I attended a global warming conference was in 2009, when I spent only three hours at their gathering in Copenhagen. I arrived just after President Obama, Secretary Clinton, and Senator Kerry promised world leaders that the United States would act on cap-and-trade. I was in Copenhagen as a one-man truth squad: I said that the United States Senate would never ratify the Kyoto treaty or pass cap-and-trade. I was right, and now even the liberal media is admitting that these conferences are pointless. As Der Spiegel put it, the conference in Doha is “turning into a farce.” The UK Guardian said that “Doha is a byword for stalemate and failure” and the New York Times reported that after the failure of the Rio+20 conference held in June, “more and more people may be ignoring these global confabs.”

      It’s not surprising that this year’s conference has been ignored. Remember EPA Administrator Lisa Jackson admitted to me that EPA’s global warming regulations are based primarily on the now exposed Climategate science of the completely discredited UN IPCC. The Atlantic Monthly said of Climategate “the stink of intellectual corruption is overpowering.” And the UK Telegraph wrote that “This is the worst scientific scandal of our generation.”
      Of course, the focus of this year’s global warming conference – like all the conferences before – is not the environment. It’s about one thing: spreading the wealth around. As the Associated Press reported, “one of the main challenges will be raising climate aid for poor countries at a time when budgets are strained by financial turmoil.”
      Three years ago, President Obama helped create a United Nations Green Slush Fund that would redistribute over $100 billion from developed countries to developing countries. While he has been racking up huge deficits and talking up tax increases, the President has already sent billions of American taxpayer dollars to the United Nations – and he’s managed to do it quietly so that no one will notice.
      How many billions have already been handed over in the last three years? It’s hard to tell. There appears to be little in the way of transparency. Bloomberg reports that the European Union, the United States, Japan and other developed nations paid out in the range of $23 to $34 billion.
      Of course, this is just the beginning. United Nations Climate Chief Christiana Figueres explained her job this way: “It is the most inspiring job in the world because what we are doing here is we are inspiring government, private sector, and civil society to [make] the biggest transformation that they have ever undertaken. The Industrial Revolution was also a transformation, but it wasn’t a guided transformation from a centralized policy perspective. This is a centralized transformation that is taking place because governments have decided that they need to listen to science. So it’s a very, very different transformation and one that is going to make the life of everyone on the planet very different.” This is the top UN Climate chief: she sees herself as the overseer of “transforming” the lives of everyone on the planet.
      At the global warming conference in Milan, I asked an African delegate who I knew why he had attended and he said, “It has nothing to do with the science; it’s because it’s the biggest party of the year.” It’s time to put an end to these lavish, absurd global warming parties and focus on the real problems that we face.

      • roobeedoo2 says:

        “Russians” Click. You missed off the last word

        Is Putin still going ahead with his idiotic plans to clamp down on smoking? Anybody know what’s happening over there?

    • smokingscot says:

      Lord Stern & Ms McCarthy are pretty darned good at whingeing and finger pointing.

      First off get forest cover in England to 30% as opposed to the abysmal 13% or so that it is at present:

      Even Scotland’s better than that, though still at a piss-poor 17 and a bit percent (Orkney Islands excluded – too windy).

      Best carbon sink known to man – and it’s the young fast growing trees that soak up most.

      And this business of pushing diesel cars. I know it’s dated January, but at least one decision maker – Labour – admits it was a royal screw-up.


      The folks in Catalonia have voted for pro-independence parties!

      (though it was a fairly low turnout. On second thoughts, that never bothered the SNP, so why should it bother the Catalonians).

      I was taken by the way the bearded Rajoy, in his suit, in Barcelona, in September, was passionately sweating his reasons why people should vote for his lot. They’re the ones who of course refused to do f-all about the smoking ban and even tainted that casino complex because they wouldn’t make an exemption even for a multi million investment and about 25,000 jobs.

      So let the fun begin!!!

    • nisakiman says:

      New climate change targets to cut greenhouse gases by 80 per cent by 2050 will require farms to reduce methane produced by cows…

      I would have thought, Rose, that 7 billion people on a diet of beans and cabbage would more than make up for the methane no longer produced by cattle.

      • Rose says:

        That thought did cross my mind, Nisakiman, but I decided it too indelicate to mention.
        I did do a bit of research on the subject though and it appears that it is a considerable problem for those who have only recently turned vegetarian.

        • Frank Davis says:

          I read that Hitler suffered from this problem all the time. And that would have been many years after becoming a vegetarian. Which suggests to me that vegetarian diets don’t agree with people’s digestive tracts, even though they agree with the their beliefs.

  10. smokervoter says:

    The torch (ahem, the BIC lighter) has been passed from Speaker of the House John Boehner to the right honorable Nigel Farage (MEP) as the world’s most powerful smoker.

    I take no delight in this. I liked John Boehner and featured him over at my frozen website many a time. If you’ve followed his career as I have, he hardly fits the bill of a RINO. He was a pragmatic realist if he was anything. Unlike Nigel, he was hardly ever pictured indulging in a fulfilling smoke, likely because his political rivals would have exploited it to his detriment. That’s just smart and shows a good survival instinct on his part. Nigel has clearly got more guts.

    And speaking of pragmatic realism, shutting down the government plays into the hands of the Democratic party. If you really want some more federal taxes and smoking restrictions, give them control of both houses of congress and the executive branch and watch Dick Durbin (D-Illinois), Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn.), Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio), Jack Reed (D-R.I), Sheldon Whitehouse (D-R.I.), Al Franken (D-Minn.), Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.), and Jeff Merkley (D-Ore.) in action.

    But it’s also a sad comment on our society in the USA that to be shown smoking is verboten. I don’t suppose it would have helped segregationist Governor George Wallace much to be photographed hugging Negro constituents either. It shows that the antismoking crusaders have succeeded in resurrecting the vile caste system of India when smokers are now viewed as the American Untouchable Dalit.

    He caved in to Nancy Pelosi (D-San Francisco) when she took away the last smoking room refuge at the Capitol. That I didn’t like. But I think she still had a crush on him nonetheless.

    Who can forget the time he stood his ground on national teevee when the crotchety old ex-smoking Bob Shieffer hijacked him on Face the Nation and challenged him to quit and meet him on the steps of the National Institute of Health (a literal den of caste system revivalists in white smocks) to publicly denounce smoking. He declined the offer.

    What bothers me greatly is that now that John Boehner is gone, it’s unlikely that we will ever see another powerful American politician openly smoke.

    Such is the state of the New Caste System firmly in place. Nancy Pelosi, Bob Shieffer, the NIH, (real RINO’s like Ohio Governor John Kasich who “lowered taxes” on smokers’ backs) and all the rest should hang their loathsome, healthist heads in shame.

    • harleyrider1978 says:
      • harleyrider1978 says:

        Colleges being forced to go smokefree by Obama Administration

        The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services announced an initiative to ban smoking from college campuses last month. This is part of the HHS goal to create a society free of tobacco-related disease and death, according to their action plan released by the HHS in 2010.

        Colleges who fail to enact campus-wide smoking bans and other tobacco-free policies may soon face the loss of grants and contracts from the HHS, according to the plan. Western receives grants through a subdivision of the HHS called the National Institutes of Health, Acting Vice Provost for Research Kathleen Kitto said.

        Obama administration to push for eliminating smoking on college campuses

        Read more: … z29zJ2V2TV

        President Barack Obama has already promised not to smoke cigarettes in the White House. If his administration has its way, American college students will soon be required to follow suit while they’re on campus.

  11. Rose says:

    On the subject of social engineering.

    I have just got off the phone to my sister, she was ringing me to say that she can’t come to Sunday lunch as she has gone down with a cold given to her by co worker. She knows it was this person as she came up to my sister at work complaining how dreadful she felt with “this bloody awful cold”. Acting in a responsible manner, unlike her co worker, my sister has decided to stay at home and not inflict it on us.

    There is a point to all this.

    131 million days were lost due to sickness absences in the UK in 2013

    “The main cause for working days lost in 2013 was musculoskeletal conditions (such as back and neck pain), leading to 31 million days lost. The next most important cause was minor illnesses such as coughs and colds (27 million days lost), followed by stress, anxiety or depression, at 15 million days lost.”

    Some countries traditionally have methods for preventing the spread of contageous diseases in enclosed public places so no legislation is necessary to halt this appalling toll of disease caused by the irresponsible.

    Why do Japanese people wear surgical masks?

    “Until recently, masks were primarily worn by people who had already come down with an illness. If you were feeling under the weather but couldn’t take the day off, common courtesy dictated that you cover your mouth and nose with a mask, so as not to breathe your germs all over you class or office mates or fellow commuters.”

    There are bonuses to acting considerately too

    “Some people even see masks as a fashionable accessory. An online search for masuku bijin or “beautiful masked girl” will bring up hundreds of results, and an increasing number of companies are offering masks with floral, polka dot, and even houndstooth patterns, not to mention jet-black ninja-style masks for guys.”

    Now that ASH has set a precedent for the “date of guilty knowledge” using the The Health and Safety at Work Act 1974 , how much more immediately dangerous to health and productivity are airborn infectious germs?

    “The Health and Safety at Work Act 1974 (the 1974 Act) imposes a general duty on employers to their employees and provides that:

    ‘It shall be the duty of every employer to ensure, so far as reasonable practicable, the health, safety and welfare at work of all his employees.’

    Section 2(2)(e) of the 1974 Act places a specific duty on the employer in respect of employees:

    ‘to provide and maintain a safe working environment which is, so far as is reasonably practicable, safe, without risks to health and adequate as regards facilities and arrangements for their welfare at work.’

    The key factor in personal injury claims under the 1974 Act is not whether the employer in fact knew about the risks of particular substances or practices in the work place, but whether they ought to have known in the light of knowledge available at that time. This is the concept of ‘guilty knowledge’.”
    http: //

    If people can’t act use commonsense and wear a mask voluntarily at work or stay at home until they are no longer infectious, based on ASH’s previous deliberate stretching of the meaning of an old and very important law that’s now even been extended to private cars carrying children, perhaps we can engineer a healthier environment for everyone.
    Just without all the shaming, punishment and fines.

    It’s amazing how politicians completely miss the obvious, has the Behavioral Insights team ( nudge unit ) made any presentations on this?

    • harleyrider1978 says:

      On catching the bugs,I catch em from everyone no matter what it seems. Just got over a 3 day stomach virus.

      • Rose says:

        Well, perhaps you wouldn’t catch so many bugs if sick people out and about were considerate enough to wear masks and keep their diseases to themselves.

        • harleyrider1978 says:

          Rose are problem over here is so many illegal aliens bringing in tropical diseases and other things. Then next in line is international travel. That’s why we have so many mutated new bugs in America and their getting more and more virulent. Shutting down travel and deporting would end the sickness faster than anything else. No doubt it would do the same for everybody the world over.

        • harleyrider1978 says:

          Illegal Alien Disease Epidemic – Doctors And Nurses Gagged, Threatened With Arrest if They Talk

          The message to doctors and nurses was simple; you talk, you go to jail. That message was delivered by officers of the government security contractors hired to police the Lackland Air Base illegal alien induction facility.

          Some have spoken up anyway, because the risks are so great. They say the American taxpayers and citizens have a right to know what disease epidemic risk is being brought into our nation. They were interviewed confidentially by Todd Starnes of Fox News.

          The secret nature of the process is itself of concern to the whistleblowers. One psychiatric counselor said, “There were several of us who wanted to talk about the camps, but the agents made it clear we would be arrested. We were under orders not to say anything.”

          The security guarding the workers is provided by “Baptist Family & Children’s Services,” a contractor hired by HHS. They are referred to by themselves and others within the facility ominously as the “Brown Shirts.”

          The counselor said “It was a very submissive atmosphere, once you stepped onto the grounds, you abided by their laws – the Brown Shirt laws.”

          Upon entry to the facility all cell phones and other communication devices are confiscated and anyone caught with a phone is immediately terminated. She said, “Everyone was paranoid, the children had more rights than the workers.”

          The infectious diseases that are still being brought in include measles, scabies, chicken pox and strep throat. Mental health and emotional conditions are also being diagnosed, and may or may not be treated.

          The counselor described watching lice crawling down the hair of children she was attending to.

          A former nurse calls it a “lice epidemic.” She said, “You could see the bugs crawling through their hair,” and added, “After we would rinse out their hair, the sink would be loaded with black bugs.”

          That former nurse said, “We have so many kids coming in that there was no way to control all of the sickness – all this stuff coming into the country. We were very concerned at one point about strep going around the base.”

          The counselor and the nurse both said the official position is to conceal the extent of the illnesses from the public.

          The nurse describes how, “When they found out the kids had scabies, the charge nurse was adamant – ‘Don’t mention that. Don’t say scabies.’ But everybody knew they had scabies. Some of the workers were very concerned about touching things and picking things up. They asked if they should be concerned, but they were told ‘don’t worry about it.’”

          Another problematic condition which concerned the nurse was the fact that the children were transported to Lackland on domestic charter buses and airplanes. Whatever conditions they have may have been left on the seats and other surfaces and could infect others.

          The counselor noticed children who she recognized as being suicidal and recommended that they be sent to a psychiatric unit. Rather than treat one boy she pointed out, he was placed with a family in America.

          It was at that point that she filed a Child Protective Services report and quit her job, concerned that her license was at risk if the child later committed suicide.

          The counselor says she kept a detailed journal about what is going on inside the Lackland facility and remarked, “When people read that journal they are going to be astonished. I don’t think they will believe what is going on in America.”

          She reports that she was later contacted by federal agents who demanded that she return to Lackland and surrender her journal to them. She refused to do so and has not returned to Lackland.

          It is Cloward-Piven in action. The nurse expressed her belief that, “They’re going to crush the system. We can’t sustain this. They are overwhelming the system and I think it’s a travesty.”

          Rick Wells is a conservative author who recognizes that our nation, our Constitution and our traditions are under a full scale assault from multiple threats.

    • harleyrider1978 says:

      This is absolutely insanity

      The key factor in personal injury claims under the 1974 Act is not whether the employer in fact knew about the risks of particular substances or practices in the work place, but whether they ought to have known in the light of knowledge available at that time. This is the concept of ‘guilty knowledge’.”

  12. harleyrider1978 says:

    Harley got a new toy a 55 inch VIZIO smart TV for streaming video,once they get our fiber optics hooked up outside. Got my laptop hooked into it and from the bed wit a remote keyboard and mouse going to town on it! Yeehawww!

    • roobeedoo2 says:

      I’m sorry you’re incapacitated Harls but now you’ve got the time and tools to really go for it ;)

      Stop it, Clicky, you know that ad gives me goosebumps

      • harleyrider1978 says:

        RooBee I was out and about today and had to charge my jeeps battery to go for a spin in it. Didn’t get 1/4 mile and the flapper plate in the throttle body came apart and the engine went to 4000 rpm and I had to shutit down and slide off the road. Brother came around with a chain and we towed it home. Its an easy fix it just started raining whe we got back so tomorrow will do.

  13. harleyrider1978 says:

    North American Congress of Epidemiology, June 14, 2001, Toronto
    Betsy Foxman, Professor of Epidemiology at the University of Michigan
    in her role as Chair of the American Public Health Association Epidemiology Section,
    Tenets of Epidemiology

    All epidemiologic studies are flawed.
    All study populations are select.
    All sample sizes are too small.
    Case and exposure definitions are always biased.
    Controllable biases always become apparent after the study is conducted.
    The data are always dirty.
    The analysis is never complete.
    Further study is always needed.
    The results are never generalizable to everyone.

    The impossibility of conducting a perfect epidemiologic study can make us defensive
    and hypercritical; we epidemiologists have the reputation of “eating our children”,
    or — at the very least — of triaging all of our colleagues’ grant proposals.

    We also are a bit sensitive about what makes someone a “real” epidemiologist. We have
    persons who began their careers as physicians, sociologists, veterinarians, dentists,
    statisticians, biostatisticians, psychologists, microbiologists, and some as epidemiologists.

    Our professional education includes on the job training, the epidemiology intelligence
    service, masters’ of public health, masters of science, doctor of public health, doctor of
    philosophy, and doctor of science.

    This leads to some Corollaries to the tenets

    There are many ways to become an epidemiologist.
    All are wrong.
    Whatever your training, it isn’t sufficient.

  14. harleyrider1978 says:

    It’s Happening – Global Marxist Dictator Obama Declares We’re “One World Seeking Change,” Every Citizen “Has To Do Their Part”

    • harleyrider1978 says:

      Obamas worried and in a hurry for he see’s whats on the political horizon,a tsunami out to destroy all he and his ilk facists have done to everyone. Its either that or world war 3.

  15. roobeedoo2 says:

    Giving up meat is different to giving up smoking and drinking… apparently ;)–byNNRPN28x

    Mind you, you get veggies that don’t eat meat but eat chicken. You have veggies that don’t eat meat but eat fish. You have veggies that don’t eat meat but eat diary products. I guess it’s a big group to cater for ;)

  16. beobrigitte says:

    Is Meat Murder?
    Can a lion/tiger/wolf/ape/pitcher plant…. etc.etc. be called a murderer?

    Fact is that carnivorous and omnivorous beings do kill for meat to eat.

    Meat should be treated like tobacco with a public campaign to stop people eating it, Jeremy Corbyn’s new vegan shadow farming minister has suggested…

    In an interview with Viva!life, a magazine for vegans, she admitted she was a “militant” when it came to clamping down on meat consumption.

    The lady will be in for a surprise as it is evident that she has no idea about anything. I guess not understanding much is a prerequisite for the job as (shadow) farming minister.

    The first consequence of her action will be the ruin of farmers as well as the land scape. The land required to grow all the vegetables required will gobble up the lush grass lands, an action, which in turn, will destroy many micro habitats….

    Then, whilst vegetarians, indeed, can meet all the body requires by consuming some animal based produce, vegans do have a problem that shows long term. B12 deficiency. Although some plants do contain Vitamin B12, our bodies are unable to utilize it.
    On the long run vegans live rather risky; Vitamin B12 is required for a number of biochemical processes. The most observed ‘deficiency’ symptom in vegans is a drop in iron, thus haemoglobin.
    Unless they supplement their diet with a money-bomb for the pharmaceutical industry (which raises the question of HOW do they produce Vitamin B12 in tablet form WITHOUT resorting to animals?) they will on the long run SERIOUSLY damage their health.

    Jeremy Corbyn sure has made a choice of appointing a shadow farming minister…. Yet another reason to stay clear of anything Labour. NONE of them can think beyond their own noses and running a country on short term political correctness (thinking not required!) usually ends up in disaster. I have learned that the conservatives are no better.

    I, personally, MY OWN PRIVATE CHOICE, is to consume less meat than I used to. Currently I am having fun digging out very old recipes, such as soured-cream soup. I do disagree with the animals who feed me never having seen a grass area, so I buy my meat from a local farmer whose cows I can watch grazing on grassland the Labour shadow minister is hell bent on destroying. And, she will be off-sick on taxpayers’ contribution. Long term.

    At the end of the day it is unwise to dictate a lifestyle. It’ll backfire 10-fold and cause more damage.

    Talking about meat…. A few years ago “Maul-und-Klauenseuche” (I forgot the English term for it, sorry!!!) caused Labour to dictate the mass cull of cows. The mothers of young children were horrified. After all, this mass slaughter would give their precious offspring nightmares.
    I did scratch my head at the time in some sort of bewilderment. Surely these mothers can’t all be dumb enough to ignore the fact that abattoirs are VERY busy places so their precious chiiiiildren can have whatever meat they fancy nibbling on?

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