It Looked Like Smoking

Via Facebook, I’m astonished how rapidly e-cigarettes are being demonised (my emphases).

E-cigarette health scare erupts as officials highlight “serious” cancer risk of vaping

Officials have issued an urgent warning about the “serious risks” of electronic cigarettes, adding fuel to a growing public health crisis around the safety of “vaping”.

A Californian health chief has confirmed that anyone who uses liquid tobacco is exposing themselves to 10 known carcinogens.

He produced a report which found that e-cigs are a “community heath threat”.

Any teenager who uses an e-cig faces a risk of harming their BRAIN development, claimed Dr. Ron Chapman, director of the California Department of Public Health.

“E-cigarettes contain nicotine and other harmful chemicals, and the nicotine in them is as addictive as the nicotine in cigarettes,” said Dr Chapman.

“There is a lot of misinformation about e-cigarettes. That is why, as the state’s health officer, I am advising Californians to avoid the use of e-cigarettes and keep them away from children of all ages.”

This warning came after other researchers claimed the vapour from e-cigs was packed full of formaldehyde, which is know to cause lethal cancer.

Last week, the New England Journal of Medicine published research which said e-cigs could be more dangerous than smoking.

Formaldehyde? That’s one of them 4,000 “chemicals” in tobacco smoke, isn’t it?


E-cigs haven’t been around long enough for any epidemiological studies to be carried out. But they’re now saying that they’re as bad – or even worse – than cigarettes.

But really they’re being banned because they looked like smoking. (And because they break Big Pharma’s monopoly on NRT products.)

Given the speed with which e-cigarettes are being demonised, by the very same people who demonise tobacco, why don’t more vapers start wondering why cigarettes were demonised? Why do they disbelieve the ‘experts’ over vaping, but believe everything they say about smoking?

If someone started a fad for putting little white sticks with glowing tips and a cloud of cotton wool attached to the tip, they’d be banned too. Researchers would rapidly discover that they contained hundreds of carcinogens, and Californians would be advised to keep them away from children of all ages (e.g. children aged 40). But actually it would be banned because it looked like smoking.

It was the same with tobacco. Smoking wasn’t banned because the smoke contained hundreds of carcinogens too, and should be kept away from children as well.

Wanna know why smoking was really banned?

Smoking was banned because it looked like smoking.




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40 Responses to It Looked Like Smoking

  1. Vinny Gracchus says:

    It is absolutely not about health. I really like the image at the bottom of the post. It is time to expose these lies. Vapers and smokers need to band together to fight the totalitarian bans on smoking and vaping.

  2. jaxthefirst says:

    “… the nicotine in them is as addictive as the nicotine in cigarettes,”

    Of course it is (or isn’t, depending on your point of view) ….. Because. It’s. The. Same. Chemical. Duh! (Forehead meets desk …)

    … 10 known carcinogens …”

    Only 10?? Pah! Small beer! Just shows how weedy all those born-again vapers actually are. Just 10? Pathetic. Probably renders vaping less of a vice than the pretend cigarettes they used to sell in sweet shops. Give me a full-strength 4000 chemicals any day. Now, that’s a real vice!

    … e-cigs could be more dangerous than smoking.

    Well, that shows how scared Tobacco Control is by e-cigs more than anything else. Most of the other new-on-the-block prohibitionist movements (anti-booze, anti-sugar etc) can still only bring themselves to say “could be as dangerous as smoking.” I do hope that TC continue down this radical line because, if vapers (as most seem to be obedient, believe-the-experts type) hear this they’ll instantly ditch their vapes and go back to “safer” real tobacco instead. And the more smokers we have, the more power to our collective elbows, as they say. Keep it up, TC!!

    “E-cigs haven’t been around long enough for any epidemiological studies to be carried out.”

    C’mon, Frank! Don’t underestimate the enemy. Little practicalities like the fact that e-cigs haven’t been around long enough and there aren’t enough vapers to conduct a realistic epidemiological study are mere fripperies for Tobacco Control. If there aren’t any real epidemiological studies around, they’ll simply invent a few. Mystic Meg here predicts that one will probably hit the headlines before this year is out. It might only be a study conducted with 20 vapers from the same small area who have only been vaping for a couple of years or so, but the headlines will nevertheless scream: “Studies Have Shown …” accompanied by the usual exaggeration, scaremongering and gory pictures.

    And, like Vinny, I like the image. Did you do it yourself? If so, then you should put a link to your blog (or to one of the hastily brushed-under-carpet studies which disproves everything tobacco control has ever said, or, if he agrees, to one of Mike M’s books or articles, or indeed anywhere else where you think it would be helpful) on it. Then we can all print off a few copies and scatter them liberally around …

    • Frank Davis says:

      Did you do it yourself?

      No (apart from one small detail). I found it on Facebook. But it had a spelling mistake. They’d spelled deceit as “deciet”. So I took out the i and the e and swapped them round.

      • margo says:

        ‘citizens that smoke’. Shouldn’t it be ‘citizens who smoke’? Or is WHO one of those words we’re not using any more?

    • When you toss out what Frank just posted in todays BLog it totally destroys by comparison the entire Nazis arguments hands down………..It has come to the point where TC’s BS is and has become political liability and is fast tracking to anyone believing the horse shit as an asinine idiot for even backing or stating their claims any longer……….

      The days fast coming where politicians will start pointing fingers at the other politician in elections that so and so still believes in witch craft and tobacco control Junk science claims and start making jabs jokes and silly inuendos at the opposition………..its already happening as Rand Paul laid into Jeb Bush about smoking pot yet wanting the same folks doing what he did criminalized and locked away!

      • We may soon see a new or is it an old term Tobacco harm deniers laid rightin beside climate deniers………..if that’s their last defense against FACTS………..They’ve lost the vote already!

        • Cigar aficionados light up new effort to allow smoking rooms

          For the fourth time since Washington state’s indoor smoking ban took effect, making restaurants, places of employment and other public places smoke-free, there is an effort to give cigar lovers state-regulated places to smoke indoors

          County Nixes County-Wide Smoking Bylaw

        • Bill would put smoking bans in commissions’ hands – WTRF 7 …

          … is working its way through the West Virginia House … outside a hospital emergency department. … local health officials of the power to ban smoking in …

        • nisakiman says:

          For the fourth time since Washington state’s indoor smoking ban took effect, making restaurants, places of employment and other public places smoke-free, there is an effort to give cigar lovers state-regulated places to smoke indoors

          Can you think of any good reason, Harley, why cigar smokers should be allowed places to smoke while cigarette smokers are still given nary a scrap? It seems that cigar smokers, like vapers, think they are special cases. The reality, of course, is that legislation about smoking shouldn’t be necessary. Market forces would provide the required balance between smoking and non-smoking venues. But as we all know, to allow that would broadcast loud and clear to the world the lie that ‘smoking bans are universally popular’. Because all the smoking bars would be heaving.

        • Nsaki your right its no different and in Iowa I think it is the legislature is pushing again for cigar rooms after the supreme court ruled no excemptions………In the end I want them to succeed for the simple reason that under 14th amdenment equal protections smokers then have a constitutional right to the same excemptions…………This should force a political showdown that should result in total repeals……..

    • the nicotine in them is as addictive as the nicotine in cigarettes,”

      Of course it is (or isn’t, depending on your point of view) ….. Because. It’s. The. Same. Chemical. Duh! (Forehead meets desk …)

      If you go and read the SG reports you will find every page or next page has a to rule out that NRT are nicotine addictive devices……….

  3. waltc says:

    Unfortunately, I don’t see an alliance with the majority of vapers. They’ll just make the outraged claim that vaping is clean while tobacco is filthy and try to put ever more distance between the two and between them and us. They already bought the bullshit and are now fully invested in it.

    • Walt your correct in every way,but vapors learned a hard lesson in NOLA on the B.S.

      But yet they will still keep trucking as a BS so called ”HARM REDUCTION” device Rather than just jump in and call it smoking too and fight back the rest of us to fight for the right to smoke without regard to the device used………..that’s the ticket for all of us to combine forces and fight back as a rights issue to do as we please and stop playing the fucking harm game that’s total BS to begin with. Why in the hell cant vaping just be considered and form of a pipe,water bong or simple pleasure……….harm cannot be proven from nothing the Nazis have ever produced in over 100 years of flat out lies and propaganda.

    • nisakiman says:

      Well it won’t work, Walt. As far as the ANTZ are concerned, vapers are just smokers trying to get round the bans, and there’s no way they are going to allow that to happen.

    • Ripper says:

      Walt, who gives you the right to speak for all of us? I vape. And like the majority of vapers, I arrived at where I am now via smoking. One thing that I agree with you whole heartedly is that an alliance is needed. Not all vapers have bought the BS, please remember that.

  4. Alcohol vapors are carcinogen…………..Don’t let em fool you!

    Reprint from:
    LINK to original article Sometimes these links change or dissapear, so I have reprinted the article below.

    Fumes, Fun, Sunshine and Smoke
    Michael J. McFadden

    Antismokers like to say, ‘There is no known safe level of exposure to secondhand smoke.’ They ignore the fact that the same is true for the Class A Carcinogens alcohol and sunshine, both also having “no known safe levels”.

    Sunshine? Is it really that bad? Well, the UN claims 60,000 people die annually from its cancerous effects. Even one quick peek out your window may kill you… if we use the Surgeon General’s smoke exposure standards.

    Antismokers might laugh and say ‘Well, there’s no avoiding sunlight, but you CAN avoid smoke by having bans.’ They forget smoking bans are passed primarily to ‘protect the workers’ and there are many workers forced to serve self-centered Sunners desiring lunches on restaurant patios. Why should those workers be ‘the only ones forced to work in a carcinogenic environment?’ Should patio dining be outlawed? After all, it’s no more necessary to the act of eating than smoking is to the act of drinking.

    Speaking of drinking… Antismokers like to say ‘You’re not forcing others to drink!’, but you certainly are forcing a carcinogen on them. The actual Class A components of a cigarette’s smoke mass only .0005 grams. A standard martini puts out roughly one full gram of alcohol vapor per hour: as much Class A Carcinogen as 2,000 cigarettes!

    See for yourself: pour a good jigger (48 grams) of grain alcohol into a martini glass. Two days later it will be gone. Where did it go? Well, unless your kittycat is a closet tippler, all that nice juicy carcinogen bubbled straight into the air inhaled by you and your family: almost 100,000 cigarettes’ worth.

    Applying the same ‘zero-tolerance’ rules to alcohol as extremists demand for smoke would force us to ban alcohol from restaurants ‘where people are forced to work.’ Alcoholics could be told ‘just step outside for a moment’ between courses to grab a few quick gulps of wine.

    It is not just sunshine and martinis though: think about the deadly popcorn fumes! Recent research indicates that workers exposed to that delicious buttery aroma can lose up to 80% of their lung capacity to bronchiolitis obliterans, a condition that literally obliterates the bronchioles — the lungs’ tiniest airways.

    If ‘first hand exposure’ is that deadly, what about the ‘secondhand exposure’ you and your children get at the movies or while munching microwave popcorn on the couch? Picture hundreds of TV ads showing babies in the womb being force-fed butter flavored popcorn while their tiny computer-animated lungs slowly wither and die. Picture parents being denied custody of their children or losing their jobs because they are ‘popcorn-eaters’.

    The only thing unique about the ‘deadliness’ of secondary tobacco smoke is that a powerful lobby has focused our attention on it and magnified our fears of it. Having a patio lunch may actually be more dangerous than being inside with the smokers. Working in a poorly ventilated non-smoking alcohol-friendly restaurant may be deadlier than working in a well-ventilated smoking casino!

    The hysteria surrounding secondary smoke is deliberately created to pressure smokers to quit, no more, no less. It’s a hysteria fed by media outlets posing as good corporate citizens while making extra bucks from scary headlines. And it’s a hysteria that has ruined the lives and livelihoods of many innocent people.

    Reasonable restrictions on smoking are fine. Voluntary business choices to ban smoking are also fine. But government-mandated universal smoking bans and the social disruption attending them are most definitely not fine. They are not American, and they hurt our lives and our society far more than they help it.


    Sunlight Cancers:

    Alcohol Fumes:

    • caprizchka says:

      This comment deserves to be a blog post all by itself. Please do! Alternatively, I’ll put it on my blog–with your permission–I get about 100 hits a day–puny but better than nothing. Be honored to reblog too. Please let me know. Thanks.

  5. Churchill on smoking/drinking

    My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.

    Winston Churchill

  6. The stupidity of these Nutritional and Health experts has no ending

    “There is more sugar in a banana than in Coca Cola.
    Grapes and Bananas are not very healthy” — Birger Svihus, a nutrition professor

  7. Greeks Turn to Gold on Bank Bail-in and Drachma Risks

    The Greek stock market is down over 36% year to date; the risk of global contagion in the event of a Greek exit is very real. Ordinarily such a crisis would require a massive coordinated effort from global stakeholders, perhaps directed by the IMF or some other pan-national financial body. But not in this case; the rhetoric is nationally-based and biased without unity of purpose across finance ministries. Recent official soundings from the UK and German governments saying that exposure to Greece is limited only underscores the depth of denial, ignorance and lack of consensus that exists within the euro area. A Greek exit from the euro would profoundly weaken the euro experiment and create a dangerous precedent for all future crises in the region.

    The European economy is the largest middle class economy in the world. With over 400 million relatively affluent consumers it represents a massive portion of the net global economy and as such a breakup of part of it would be felt across the world in credit spreads and capital decisions for years to come. This would not have been because of Greek exit, but rather because of the inability of the authorities to manage the crisis as risks initially built up, then as bail outs were designed and implemented and then as these efforts surely failed.

    We are witnesses to an epic failure of planning, statecraft and social justice. Regardless of where your politics lie, these elements are critical for a modern globally connected economy to function.

    Sadly, the geopolitical backdrop is one of suspicion and hostility in the form of a festering proxy war between western and Russian interests in Ukraine and regional crisis and humanitarian catastrophe in the middle east as Syria and Iraq descend into stateless anarchy. These factors reduce the odds of a successful solution in Greece being found in time.

    The share value of Greek banks cratered up to 30% Wednesday alone, before pulling back on Thursday as fears grew that the new government may not intend to soften their stance now that they are in office.

    In what is probably the worst performance for the sector on record, the four major banks – Bank of Piraeus, Alpha Bank, National Bank of Greece and Eurobank – all closed more than 25% lower. Athens stock exchange closed 6.4% lower.

    It marks an acceleration of the losses incurred over Monday and Tuesday in the immediate aftermath of the Syriza victory. From London’s Telegraph.

    Greece’s banks have lost almost 40pc of their value in the three days since Syriza ascended to power in Sunday’s election as the dual threats of a bank run and the loss of support from the European Central Bank threaten a liquidity squeeze.

    Forbes list five main causes for the collapse:
    1.Deposit flight has accelerated.
    2.ECB liquidity could be cut off.
    3.Potential public and private debt restructuring.
    4.Low profitability.
    5.Reliance on deferred tax assets – Forbes explains it as an over-reliance by Greek banks on liquidity from the state.

    Greek banks are hemorrhaging deposits. The telegraph reports, “Banks also risk a repeat of the deposit flight seen in 2012. Up to €8bn of private sector deposits has been pulled out of Greek banks since November, according to Moody’s”, adding that bank deposits have fallen 5% in the last two months.

    The Financial Times paints an even more dramatic picture of bank runs and capital flight.

    The real danger is that the Greeks themselves lose confidence. There are tentative signs that money is again being sent abroad, as it was in mid-2012. Nikolaos Panigirtzoglou at JPMorgan points out that €350m was sent from Greece to Luxembourg money funds since the start of last week. Extrapolating to all cash flight, he estimates as much as a 10th of Greek deposits may have left already this year. If a Greek bank panic develops it will strengthen the German hand, and make negotiations that much harder.

    In the event of any or all of these possibilities, gold and silver bullion will perform well as a currency of last resort.

    Greek coin and bullion dealers with whom GoldCore spoke, confirmed an increase in demand for gold coins and bars in recent weeks and since the election.

    GoldCore have Greek clients both in Greece and living in the UK and throughout the world. We have seen a definite upsurge in interest, inquiries and demand since the election last Sunday.

    Concerns about bank holidays and also a return to the drachma have returned and Greeks are looking for ways to prevent further destruction of their wealth.

    For Greeks, Storage in Switzerland remains a favoured way of owning gold.

    The comprehensive guide to bail-ins: Protecting Your Savings in the Coming Bail-in Era


    Today’s AM fix was USD 1,263.50, EUR 1,114.98 and GBP 837.42 per ounce.
    Yesterday’s AM fix was USD 1.275.50, EUR 1,129.36 and GBP 842.25 per ounce.

    Gold and silver both fell yesterday. Gold dropped 2.13% or $27.30, closing at $1,257.60/oz. Silver fell 5.78% or $1.04 and closed at $16.95/oz.

  8. RdM says:

    “because it looked like smoking”

    It’s those children with lollipops I can’t stand… little white sticks poking out of their mouths!!

  9. RdM says:

    As with the Flat Earth society…

    Peter Sellers nailed it then

  10. Rose says:

    This warning came after other researchers claimed the vapour from e-cigs was packed full of formaldehyde, which is know to cause lethal cancer

    It’s been interesting watching this develop, they have used the same trick as they did to create tobacco tars, by heating the material way beyond anything that would happen in normal usage.

    Confirmed: Formaldehyde Study Conducted Under Implausible Conditions; Conclusions Invalid

    “The implications of this story are that the conditions used in the high voltage setting in the study were implausible. Thus, the cancer risk estimation in the study is invalid, as is its conclusion that vaping poses a higher cancer risk than active smoking because of the high levels of formaldehyde.

    To borrow an apt analogy from Dr. Farsalinos, it is like totally charring a piece of meat, detecting high levels of carcinogens, and then concluding that people who eat meat are at a very high risk of developing cancer. While it is absolutely accurate that there are high levels of carcinogens in charred meat, no one eats meat under such conditions, so the cancer risk estimation is completely invalid.

    If you overheat an atomizer, it is going to result in aldehyde formation. This is because at very high temperatures, propylene glycol degrades (is oxidized) to form formaldehyde due to incomplete combustion. This process is enhanced with the presence of metals.

    While the high voltage conditions were implausible, the low voltage conditions were not. Thus, the only valid conclusion from the study is that at low voltage conditions, the atomizer tested did not produce any detectable levels of formaldehyde.”


    “The still was filled with a.5 kg. of dry tobacco: the asbestos gasket, soaked in water-glass (liquid sodium silicate), put in place; and the lid fastened tightly so as to prevent the escape of fumes.
    The still was then slowly heated to 700° C. Six to 8 hours were required for a distillation.”;jsessionid=A36246D91FE55BDAC659DDD24A71867B

    “Some, however, had been sufficiently impressed to try to produce cancer with tobacco tar on the skin of laboratory animals.
    Roffo succeeded in doing so in the Argentine in 1931, using rabbits, but his results were generally dismissed in the UK and the US on the grounds that the tobacco had been burnt at unrealistically high temperatures.”

    http: //

    Still, as we know, anti-tobacco never let a good one go.

  11. Will says:

    It’s gone so far and politically correct that no reason is even needed anymore to ban something. All you need is some “expert opinion” from a doctor or a mayor and everybody will buy into it.

  12. How many cigarettes must be smoked to create an ETS danger?
    Acronyms and abbreviations MSS = Main Stream Smoke, the smoke exhaled by the smoker. SSS = Side Stream Smoke, the smoke of a smouldering cigarette in the ashtray. RSP = Respirable Suspended Particles, present in the smoke. ETS = Environmental Tobacco Smoke, or passive smoke. Milligram = One thousandth of a gram. Abbreviation: mg. One milligram = 0.000 035 273 961 95 ounces. Microgram = One millionth of a gram, or one thousandth of a milligram. The scientific abbreviation is µg. Cubic metre, meter = 35.314 cubic feet. Abbreviation: m3. TLV = Threshold Limit Value. The TLV of a chemical substance is a level to which it is believed a worker can be exposed day after day for a working lifetime without adverse health effects.
    Although certain assumptions are necessary in estimating ETS-RSP doses, they are based on simple facts or on measurements that are fairly well verified. With this in mind, such estimates seem reasonably realistic and less affected by obvious judgmental considerations. Nevertheless, in comparing RSP doses from ETS and MSS exposures it also seems reasonable to present results in analog form rather than as precise point estimates, in recognition of possible uncertainties.
    Assuming a prolonged daily exposure of 10 hr, a typical person would be exposed to a daily ETS-RSP dose of roughly 0.3-0.4 mg after breathing ambient air with a 50 µg/m3 ETS-RSP concentration, at the rate of about 0.7 m3/hr (Crawford-Brown, 1987). This is equivalent to over a 1,000-fold reduction compared with the inhaled dose of the average mainstream smoker.
    ESTIMATED NUMBER OF CIGARETTES REQUIRED TO REACH TLV LEVELS FROM SSS EMISSION OF SELECTED CHEMICALS IN A SEALED AND UNVENTILATED 100 M3 (3,531.46 Cu. Ft.) ENCLOSURE SSS component SSS output (mg/cigarette) * TLV (mg/ m3)** Cigarettes required Methylchloride 0.88 10.30 1,170 Hydroquinone 0.16 2 1,250 Cadmium 0.0007 0.01 1,430 Acetaldehyde 1.26 180 1,430 Acetic acid 1.5 25 1,660 Nitrogen oxides 2.8 50 1,780 Formic acid 0.525 9.4 1,790 Pyridine 0.39 16 4,100 Phenol 0.25 19 7,600 Methylamine 0.1 13 13,000 Benzene 0.24 32 13,300 Catechol 0.14 23 16,500 Nickel 0.0025 1 40,000 Dimethylamine 0.036 18 50,000 Hydrazine 0.00009 0.13 145,000 Acetone 1 1,780 178,000 Benzo[a]pyrene 0.00009 0.2 *** 222,000 2-Toluidine 0.003 9 300,000 Polonium 210 0.4 pCi 3 pCi/liter **** 750,000 Toluene 0.000035 375 1,000,000 * Data from EPA (l990a), Table C-2, pp. C-19 and 20. ** Data from ACGIH (1990). *** Based on the TLV for coal tar pitch volatiles. **** EPA (1990c). Data from Gori and Mantel, Mainstream and Environmental Tobacco Smoke, Regulatory Toxicology and Pharmacology 14, 88-105 (1991). Read and download the entire study at: . Further comments visible at .

  13. Smoking Lamp says:

    They don’t like the look of “Smoking:…

    From Cambridge Citizens for Smokers’ Rights (

    “My perception is that anti-smoking campaigners switch tactics and arguments as it suits them. When bar bans were first passed more than 10 years ago, they were passed on the basis of protecting non-smokers from secondhand smoke. Now it seems that they have switched tactics and openly admit that new restrictions are about denormalizing smoking. As Massachusetts State Representative Marjorie Decker said at the council meeting on 12/15/14, “I don’t think we should couch this as a danger of secondhand smoking… it is about setting and establishing healthy, contagious behaviors. That’s what this is about.”

    I guess the antismokers know that the evidence on second hand smoke is stacked against them. From their perspective, it was a worthwhile ruse when they needed fear to shift public sentiment. Now that they have shifted sentiment they can be open about their bullying and denormalization.

  14. Reference Manual on Scientific Evidence: Third Edition Judge Kessler was also involved in writing this manual on scientific evidence………..Fraud just doesn’t begin to describe her and the EPA ETS study of Osteens. When you refer to the manual it automatically would set aside all of EPA’s claims that’s why Kessler nor EPA questioned a single claim in Osteens 92 page decision but Kessler instead went for jurisdictional power. In simple form she just said because EPA wasn’t going to use the study for regulatory rules and just use it as a guide Osteen didn’t have any legal grounds to disregard the study. We all know EPA was going to use that junk science for getting indoors after it got the congress to give it the RADON ACT of 1989. Then EPA had some form of official capacity to get inside and regulate OSHA’s domain INDOOR air…………..

    These limits generally are based on assessments of health risk and calculations of concentrations that are associated with what the regulators believe to be negligibly small risks. The calculations are made after first identifying the total dose of a chemical that is safe (poses a negligible risk) and then determining the concentration of that chemical in the medium of concern that should not be exceeded if exposed individuals (typically those at the high end of media contact) are not to incur a dose greater than the safe one.

    So OSHA standards are what is the guideline for what is acceptable ”SAFE LEVELS”

  15. beobrigitte says:

    A Californian health chief has confirmed that anyone who uses liquid tobacco is exposing themselves to 10 known carcinogens.
    Well, that is much better than what a baby being pushed in a pram alongside a road in any town is exposed to..
    Let’s save the chiiiiildren then, shall we……

  16. Reblogged this on artbylisabelle and commented:
    Looks like money to them, they can see right through the smoke and fog.

  17. Lahoma Stapleton says:

    Great Article. comments ! I was enlightened by the insight – Does someone know where my company might be able to grab a sample SEC Form 4 example to fill in ?

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