Hitler Would Be Proud Of Them

H/T Rose for reminding us of Tobacco policies in Nazi Germany: not as simple as it seems, published in 2008.

The tobacco industry and its supporters have linked contemporary proposals for tobacco control measures with Nazi policies. … tobacco control activists being attacked as fanatics while tobacco control measures widely accepted elsewhere are presented as unimaginable totalitarian attacks on individual liberty, comparable to those during the fascist regime in the 1930s and 1940s. For example, a search on the pro-smoking website, http://www.forces.org yields over 200 hits with the word ‘Hitler’.

If nothing else, it shows that Tobacco Control is a bit worried about reminders of its origins in the Nazi era (something that has only emerged in the past 20 years), and seeks to muddy the waters:

While there was considerable opposition to smoking in Nazi Germany, there was no consistent Nazi policy to combat smoking, and what did exist built on pre-existing policies. Although extreme measures were taken in isolated localities or by overzealous party members, there was a marked ambivalence to tobacco control at the highest levels. Many policies were contradictory; measures were often not enforced, and cigarettes were actively distributed to ‘deserving’ groups.

Conclusion

Policies on tobacco in Nazi Germany are much more complex than is often represented by those who invoke them to condemn those seeking to reduce the burden of disease caused by smoking.

I doubt if there was any more public opposition to smoking in Nazi Germany than anywhere else: the zealots, then as now, were mostly in the medical profession and the Nazi party. And what “pre-existing policies” were there? Were there smoking bans in the Weimar Republic?

Yet I believe it’s true to say that there was no consistent Nazi antismoking policy. There were a number of piecemeal measures. After all, many top Nazis – Goering and Goebbels, for example – were themselves smokers.

Nevertheless, there was a great deal of “research” carried out in Nazi Germany on smoking, typically using questionnaires. Also the notion of “passive smoking” was introduced at this time.

In many ways, Nazi antismoking methodology and policies became the models for the post-war era. Doll and Hill’s two post-war studies used the same questionnaire-based methodology as the Nazis. And the Nazi notion of “passive smoking” was also subsequently revived. And Nazi-style smoking bans in public places were introduced:

Under the supervision of the Institute for Tobacco Hazards Research, the ban was imposed in every public building and public space, including air-raid shelters, with Hitler even personally intervening in 1944 to ensure it was extended to trains and buses in order to protect young female conductors.

Post-war antismokers simply picked up where the Nazis left off, and have since proceeded to out-Nazi the Nazis at their own game. Modern smoking bans are far more draconian than any of the Nazi bans.

Furthermore, while many previous antismoking crusades were moral and religious in their approach, modern antismoking campaigners share the Nazi obsession with Public Health. We now have as much of a duty to be healthy as any German living in Nazi Germany. And the Nazi persecutions of Jews and Gypsies were themselves Public Health measures taken against “racial poisons.”

Robert Proctor, author of the Nazi War on Cancer, has tried to justify Nazi antismoking “science” by arguing that, while the Nazis did a lot of bad science – e.g. Nazi racial theory -, they actually did a lot of good science too – giving as an example the V2 rocket -, and that their antismoking science belongs in the latter  “good” category. Unfortunately for Proctor, the development of the V2 largely proceeded despite Hitler and the Nazi party – so it can hardly be classed as an example of Nazi science at all. The V2 was anyway a piece of technological innovation. Nazi antismoking science had zero technological or innovative content, and furthermore shared the same Public Health ethos that underpinned Nazi racial theory. Furthermore, while Hitler neglected rocket technology, he put 100,000 Reichsmarks of his own money into the Institute for the Struggle Against Tobacco Hazards at Jena University, an institution whose very name presupposes that there are ‘hazards’ associated with tobacco, and which prefigures that ubiqitous kind of “research” which first announces its predetermined conclusions and then looks for evidence to support those conclusions. Nazi antismoking science and Nazi racial science were both ideological “sciences”, and peas from the same eugenic pod, and as such not true sciences at all.

It may be truthfully said that, while Nazi Germany was defeated long ago, and Nazi racial theory consigned to the garbage dump of history, Nazi antismoking ideology and methodologies and policies now flourish in the 21st century under the guise of their direct lineal descendants, Tobacco Control and Public Health, deep in the heart of the WHO and the global medical establishment.

Hitler would be proud of them.

P.S. I make that 6 mentions of “Hitler”, and 35 of “Nazi”. Oh wait,… make that 7 and 36. I claim my Godwin Medal!

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About Frank Davis

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38 Responses to Hitler Would Be Proud Of Them

  1. The nazis had health campaigns very similar to our heath campaigns today:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC535959/

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1059950/

    And like the public health crusaders of present time Hitler and the nazis had their inspiration from the same source: The eugenics movement of California.

    • harleyrider1978 says:

      I just heard the VA dept Head on cspan let it slip our veterans are our best patients and that our ” PARTNERSHIPS” with others aide in training all walks of life in clinical settings for their training……………Meaning as Ive always said that we American veterans are nothing but guinea pigs to these bastards for whatever new so called experiment they decide to try.

      This change came down under Clinton in 1997-8 at VA when hense again the mission of VA was changed from that of hiring military medical doctors to fulfill its needs to that of dragging in every social liberal from every country they could find and cram then down our colletive throats saying the demand is so great we have to bring them in to meet the demand for services…………

      The underlying lie is there was no major demand for services,what they did was a create an artificial demand by forcing you into quazai HEALTH and WELLNESS programs thru a PCP as they deemed it. This meant that every 3 months whether or not you needed to even see a Doc you were scheduled in whats called BLOCK SCHEDULING. Oh it looked pretty on paper where it said you have an 8 am appoint at PCP with DR. Smith who happened back then to be my actual Doc when I did go…………the 8 am scam was a ruse! You showed up walked in a clinic that use to have maybe 20 folks in it to find at least 100 block scheduled for the 8 am -12 noon schedule and then another 100 or more scheduled in from 12 noon to 4 pm…………..If you didn’t get seen they would kindly offer you a cot or bed for the nite with the promise youd get seen first thing in the morning to then find you were actually seeing a foreign exchange medical student and Dr Smith was now a CHARGE DOCTOR in his clinic over 18-20 med students of varying nationalities and languages.

      That was the last time I went back!

      They have tried to use the PCP crap primary care doctor system as a way to keep the influx of patients at all time highs for the last 18 years.

      With any government organization you have to prove need for more monies…………

      That’s how VA did it and at the same time put veterans in with unqualified personell and we the veterans collect the collateral damage done us by inexperienced medical personell.
      Now I ask you? Would you go and be treated by a med student thinking it was a full fledged Doc to start with or just take the RISK of being one of thousands of medical mistakes each year VA does that ends in either disability or death or worse life long suffrage from willfull arrogant bastards possibly hating you for when you had to shoot at their country men during a war or whatever…………

      I refuse to be a party or take risks being dumped into that quagmire of socialist run bullshit started by Clinton and his public health dogs at the same time he was putting anti-smoking Nazis into all the federal public health depts. everywhere. Then making them all regular government employees on his last day in office via executive order so Bush couldn’t remove them under the spoils system!

      • harleyrider1978 says:

        Needless to say that same day I got to finally see Dr Smith after a HINDU woman dressed in native garb Im talking Gold silk dress and the HINDU RED DOT on her forehead wanted to stick her finger up my anus and I said shit no you aint lady!

        She jumped back and started yelling it because I am Woman you don’t want me to examine youz! I said I want my regular doc and that’s all the fuck there is to it!

        Boy she stormed out of that exam room hotter and cussing in her Punjabby dialect where you couldn’t hardly make out a word. Then in walks a Saudi Arabian so called doctor who was finishing his residency from Vanderbilt. He had been here in the states about 16 years so he spoke American real good and then Dr Smith came in after all the Hoopla…….

        That’s when I found out what I posted above and he himself was basically ready to quit and leave that rotten garden of BS and go into private practice which he ultimately did but down in Floriduh the next summer.

        I had only gone to get a claim perfected as they call it with some needed medical opinions and I got told………get this!

        You want us to write a medical opinion favoring you in a claim against our own bosses at VA! That’s political suicide at the VA……………..

        The VA is tasked with the demand that they provide all needed assistance to perfect a claim of disability,I found out just how far that shit went!

        You can trust me you wont win if you depend on the system to do the work for you because of BUILT IN BIASES…………..

        So I became a sea lawyer of VA healthcare claims and CFR rules………….

        In 2 years time I not only had mine approved I was helping a ton of other guys get there ratings in a system plagued to deny and obfuscate details to minutest level with specialty wording to try and deny service connections to disabilities incurred or aggravated by military service including diseases of unknown etiology.

        BVA and the Court of Veterans Appeals is the best source for those veterans fighting the system.

        You can win,but once you do stay away from the VA they will use any and all treatment records written in a special way to try and knock down disability ratings if they can do it.

        Its part of the kick back money when they do or gratus or bonus money they call it today!

        The whole system should be scrapped and started fresh.
        That’s not to say there aren’t good people in the VA its just that political cronism is at its worse in that system and likely of any government dept!

        The best thing they could do is give the vets health cards so they can be seen at their local family doctors office especially when you live 60 miles away or more.

        But then that destroys their precious control of all things!

        A private Doc is more apt to write you a disability letter/opinion backed by medical evidence than any VA doc will unless he is from the OLD SCHOOL pre 1995 at the hospital. Those guys know what happened to the system and that’s if you can even get near one.

        I called today to see about chiropractic visits and the lady was very nice Oh yes we will pay for a private doc for that service after you get into a PCP clinic and they give you a referral out on it!

        I laughed and said lady did they change PCP health and wellness BS yet back to seeing a REAL DOCTOR yet instead of needing an interpretor each visit…………….she said no sir its still block scheduling………………I said I will suffer forget it!

        • harleyrider1978 says:

          Its 0230 here and I cant sleep much on my mind and my back hurting at least my doc gave me a few pain pills for that just waiting for them to kick in besides todays dental visit means surgical removal of 4 teeth at a VA dental surgical unit! Egads…………If they hadn’t made my appoinments 5-6 months apart for a lousy 45 minutes each time my teeth Im losing next would have been fixed instead of lost long ago. VA dental is a dog system to but nothing like va medical services………… Imagine this you have a clinic with 7 fully equipped rooms but only ONE dentist for the whole building when they have room for 7 and staff!

          If Id have known in 1978 what I know now………….Id have joined the French foreign Legion!

      • carol2000 says:

        Anything that can be done by executive order can be undone by executive order.

        • harleyrider1978 says:

          Not once they are classified as full time Federal Employees………they are no longer apointees but Federal Union workers and then all the protections fall into place………

        • carol2000 says:

          “I refuse to be a party or take risks being dumped into that quagmire of socialist run bullshit started by Clinton and his public health dogs at the same time he was putting anti-smoking Nazis into all the federal public health depts. everywhere. Then making them all regular government employees on his last day in office via executive order so Bush couldn’t remove them under the spoils system!”

          This is utterly incoherent fantasy. Political appointees don’t magically become “regular government employees” merely by executive order. “Federal public health depts” – Huh????? To what are you referring in the first place? And as if the anti-smokers didn’t infest the government health establishment (NIH, etc.) long before Clinton ever got there. And speaking of dumping things on successors, how about that first President Bush dumping his EPA ETS report (where his own campaign manager, Fred Malek, was on the board of directors of the crooked contracting firm, ICF, that funneled the illegal pass-through contracts to the anti-smoking activists who secretly wrote it) just before Clinton took office. And all that crap about “socialism” is hogwash because nobody loves government handouts like big business types.

  2. It may be truthfully said that, while Nazi Germany was defeated long ago, and Nazi racial theory consigned to the garbage dump of history, Nazi antismoking ideology and methodologies and policies now flourish in the 21st century…

    Many people now wonder if it was defeated.

    Firstly, US Military Intelligence report EW-Pa 128 was written in November 1944 and describes top German industrialists meeting to decide the future of their country when it looked like they would lose the War, and that the “Fourth German Reich, unlike its predecessor, would be an economic rather than a military empire – but not just German”.
    http://www.realstreet.co.uk/2011/07/why-the-european-union-must-be-dissolved

    Secondly, eugenics is alive and ‘well’ in the West. In the UK, Marie Stopes pioneered “family planning”. As I’ve said before, she doted on Hitler, even sending him poetry and locating her “clinics” in mainly poorer areas. She was so obsessed with selective breeding to produce the “master race” that she cut out her son from her will because he married a short-sighted woman.

    Today, Marie Stopes “clinics” are among the main contraception and abortion “providers” here. Their directors, like the other main “provider”, BPAS, have been government advisors on reducing teenage pregnancy. They keep advising younger ages for starting to “educate” children about sex because they know it will make the situation worse and keep increasing their customer base IMO.

    And in GB, “doctors” can kill unborn babies suspected of having a disability right up to the point of birth (nine out of ten babies diagnosed with Down’s syndrome are aborted). Before starting on the Jews, Gypsies and others, the Nazis gassed tens of thousands of mentally and physically disabled people in their hospitals.

    The overpopulation panic also seems to have begun in Germany. Lebensraum (literally “living space”) pre-dates the Third Reich, but Hitler’s expansion plans to the east, for example, were to displace “inferior” peoples, like the Slavs, and populate the areas with Germans.

    These days many people believe in overpopulation, despite projections that the global population will even out and despite the birth rates in many Western countries, Japan and Korea becoming dangerously low and resulting in population decline and probable catastrophic social problems in decades to come.

    One of the main differences between the Third Reich and Western governments today – and this is not an endorsement! – is that the Nazis put the German people first, whereas today, the natives are generally treated as second-class citizens for divide and rule/social engineering purposes to help bring down countries by diluting national identity and replacing it with a cosy internationalist outlook of peace and prosperity between peoples – reeling in the gullible with fishy false promises of a global Utopia.

    So, the EU gets the Nobel Peace Prize as part of the mirage that supranational unions can produce peace and harmony.

    Anyway, Lebensraum will be achieved through “sustainability” in the Utopia being constructed. It is anyone’s guess how it will be done. Perhaps a two-child maximum family size, more “assisted suicides” especially for those who don’t request it, i.e. assisted murder, like some of the victims of the Liverpool Care Pathway, but that game’s up, but it was probably a trial run. Or mass starvation – the land used to grow biofuels and left idle as investments could feed nearly a billion mouths. EU farmers are paid to not grow food and our fishermen, when not consigned to port, have to throw back tons of fish into the sea.

    There are loads of ways to reduce the amount of available food. GM crops are perhaps the best bet. Monsanto et al can keep raising the price of seed and the number of people left to starve can be finely tuned, thus more Lebensraum.

    And of course, many scientists and others who worked for the Nazis were allowed to escape to the USA to work for the government.

    I think that the future will make Hitler’s efforts look very small scale in comparison.

    • harleyrider1978 says:

      In soilent green the utopia was dying on your pre- selected death date and then turned into food for the masses…………

      While over population is a worldwide threat it isn’t the natives of the western democracies out breeding anyone,its the third world dump countries not observing smaller family sizes that they can actually support and raise……….Why do you think we have a massive illegal immigration influx in America with all of south Americas unwanted young generations.

      They flock to America because they know the current and past regimes allowed it to happen and nobody is or were enforcing the law of the land………….

      Let those who increase their herd so vast they cannot feed them deal with the problem they themselves created in their own countries not ours.

      Diversity is divisionalism and its not ethnic hate but it sure doesn’t take long for that to naturally occur once jobs are in short supply and the costs invoked dealing with them are felt by the government and we find even our own governments cut assistance to those of us natives to our own country to the likes of illegals.

      Then the riots begin………………..

      • harleyrider1978 says:

        Much of the Hispanic community at least the radicals scream Reconquista as their rallying cry for illegals in the southwest U.S. With pictures Che Guerra as their rallying point. Castros pardner in communist revolution supposedly killed in an African nation trying to build a communist revolt in another land supplied and financed by Russia.

  3. Pingback: Did the Nazis Really Lose the War? | Real Street

  4. waltc says:

    I maintain it’s all (racism, anti-semitism, xenophobia, etc) part of the same ball of wax. Tribalism. The universal and recurring need to have an “out group.” Alan Kraut makes an interesting point in his book “Silent Travelers” about the role of Public Health in creating a kind of salving after-the-fact rationalization. He called it “the medicalization of pre-existing prejudices” –the justification for excluding a group you hate anyway on the grounds that it presents a menace to public health. As Jews, blacks, Mexicans and Asians were said to pose. Or, in the case of homosexuals, a menace to public morals. ( Though smoking now crosses the border between the two; smokers are now banned as corrupters of children’s morals.)

    Following Stewart: Our Margaret Sanger sounds like the parallel of your Marie Stopes beginning with the same eugenic intentions, but then, otoh, birth control has liberated both men and women in many valuable ways and it seems to me that bans against the use of contraception (there was one in Connecticut through the 1950s) is the fascist analogy..

    • Indeed, your Ms Sanger is the contemporary and almost mirror-image of our Ms Stopes. Maybe not quite so bonkers, but similarly, I understand she concentrated her “clinics” in poor/black areas.

      The thing about contraception. Well, you have “Planned Parenthood” and we have “family planning”. So there’s a plan there! But whose plan? The parents (or not, depending on the “advice” they follow) believe that they are the ones doing the planning, to be liberated; to have more time for themselves, etc. Selfish reasons, essentially. But anyway, I believe that it’s the government doing the planning. It’s ‘soft’ eugenics. It has left some countries in a really bad way so low is the fertility rate that there will be no pensions or there will have to be massive immigration of younger people to do the work and pay the taxes.

      Japan and S. Korea may be the worst hit, but e.g. the Baltic states are in a state – http://www.forbes.com/sites/markadomanis/2013/07/19/the-baltic-demographic-disaster-since-1992-the-region-has-lost-more-than-20-of-its-population/

    • harleyrider1978 says:

      Still the catholic church preaches no contraception……………hense part of the problem with so many illegals in America. There own countries offer no opportunity for them so they leave. Problem is they get here in America and find we are short of work they use to be hired to do as americans themselves are now doing those jobs in far greater numbers than ever before………….like cropping their own tobacco! When a lot use to higher a family or two to do the work.

  5. Rose says:

    When the crazies in America started demanding smoking bans in parks and on beaches, I wondered if any one else had ever been banned from parks and beaches.

    A quick search took me straight to the Nuremburg Laws which was rather unsettling.

    “banned from parks, restaurants and swimming pools”

    “excluded from cinema, theatre, concerts, exhibitions, beaches and holiday resorts”
    http://www.bl.uk/learning/histcitizen/voices/info/decrees/decrees.html

    While looking on Frank’s previous posts for that link I rediscovered this horror too.

    “Mankind barely noticed when the concept of massively organized information quietly emerged to become a means of social control, a weapon of war, and a roadmap for group destruction.”
    http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/b/black-ibm.html

    Chilling.

    • Nightlight says:

      “Chilling.”
      I see these similarities as a silver thread leading out of the tunnel. Like a marriage permeated with deception, it can’t last. The worse the better.

  6. nisakiman says:

    If you want to read some pure, unmitigated tripe, check this out:

    9 disturbing facts about cigarette smoke exposure

    http://voxxi.com/2014/11/06/facts-about-smoke-exposure/#comments-wrapper

    I couldn’t work out how to get into comments, unfortunately. I was itching to take it apart…

    • beobrigitte says:

      “More than 250 chemicals in secondhand smoke are considered toxic to humans, and of those, 69 are known to cause cancer.”

      “There is no “safe” level of exposure to secondhand smoke.”

      “Babies are particularly in danger of thirdhand smoke exposure because they spend months at floor level learning to crawl and then walk.”

      HOW on earth did WE survive AND reach our age(s) so healthily?

      “Secondhand smoke is responsible for between 150,000 and 300,000 lower respiratory tract infections in infants and children under 18 months of age, resulting in between 7,500 and 15,000 hospitalizations each year, and causes 430 sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS) deaths in the U.S. annually.”

      Abusing the Sudden Infant Death Syndrome yet again?

      HOW is passive smoking responsible for between 150,000 and 300,000 lower respiratory tract infections in infants and children under 18 months of age, resulting in between 7,500 and 15,000 hospitalizations each year? Nothing to do with viral/bacterial infects? REALLY?????

      The American Lung Association notes: “Research into previously secret tobacco industry documents reveals that research conducted by cigarette company Philip Morris in the 1980s showed that secondhand smoke was highly toxic, yet the company suppressed these findings during the next two decades.”

      And we all lived happily in these two decades. No-one died from passive smoking until tobacco control & friends figured it might scare people enough into believing all sorts of bullshit.

      Tobacco control has run out of Third Reich templates? May I suggest they use:

      It would be now, in turn, the time to insult smokers again…..

  7. harleyrider1978 says:

    Frank just now on a show called the MYTH HUNTERS made in 2012 a british historian dove right into and stated just what todays entry is about.

    How Hitler got away with everything. He said there were tons of CORRUPT health officials in Germany at the time fully able to use medical science and all the rest at the universities to fulfil his agendas………….He said with their help eugenics created by them led str8 to the gates of auchwitz!

    The episode is the ”SPEAR OF DESTINY”

  8. harleyrider1978 says:

    State parks decide against smoking ban on beaches

    Statesman Journal

    The impetus for the smoking ban originated with a 2012 executive order … Based on that directive, the commission banned smoking at most outdoor …
    http://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/news/local/2014/11/06/state-parks-steps-back-beach-smoking-ban/18562411/

  9. harleyrider1978 says:

    Cigarette Smoking Promotes Inflammation in Patients with COPD by Affecting the Polarization and Survival of Th/Tregs through Up-Regulation of Muscarinic Receptor 3 and 5 Expression

    Look who the study authors are any look familiar……….

    Ming-Qiang Zhang equal contributor,

    Yong Wan equal contributor,

    Yang Jin,

    Jian-Bao Xin,

    Jian-Chu Zhang,

    Xian-Zhi Xiong mail,

    Long Chen,

    Gang Chen

    http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0112350

    • harleyrider1978 says:

      Abstract

      Background

      CD4+ T cells in the lung are involved in the pathogenesis of chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), although CD4+ T cell subsets and the direct effect of smoking on these cells, especially the expression of MRs, have not been comprehensively examined.

      Methods

      First, circulating CD4+ T cell subsets in healthy nonsmokers, patients with SCOPD and patients with AECOPD were evaluated by flow cytometry. Then, differentiation experiments were carried out using RT-PCR, and Ki-67/Annexin V antibodies were used to measure proliferation and apoptosis. We also explored the impact of CSE on the differentiation and survival of CD4+Th/Tregs and examined the expression of MRs in healthy nonsmokers and patients with SCOPD.

      Results

      We found the percentages of circulating Th1 and Th17 cells were increased in patients with AECOPD, while the percentage of Th2 cells was decreased in patients with SCOPD. The percentages of Th10 cells were decreased in both patients with SCOPD and patients with AECOPD, while the percentages of Tregs were increased. In addition, the percentages of CD4+α-7+ T cells were decreased in patients with SCOPD and patients with AECOPD. However, only the decrease observed in patients with AECOPD was significant. In vitro studies also revealed MR expression affected the polarization of T cells, with different CD4+ T cell subtypes acquiring different MR expression profiles. The addition of CSE facilitated CD4+ T cell polarization towards pro-inflammatory subsets (Th1 and Th17) and affected the survival of CD4+ T cells and Treg cells by up-regulating the expression of MR3 and 5, resulting in an imbalance of CD4+ T cell subsets.

      Conclusions

      Our findings suggest an imbalance of circulating CD4+ T cell subsets is involved in COPD pathogenesis in smokers. Cigarette smoking may contribute to this imbalance by affecting the polarization and survival of Th/Tregs through the up-regulation of MR3 and MR5.

      • harleyrider1978 says:

        Not a single mention of viral components and their probable effects in the same condition.

        • harleyrider1978 says:

          there are few comprehensive examinations of circulating CD4+ T cell subsets in this disease. Recent research has shown that soluble components extracted from cigarette smoke (CSE) could significantly reduce T cell activation, proliferation and the expression of cytotoxic proteins, such as granzyme-B [6], thereby suppressing dendritic cell functions and favoring the development of T helper (Th)2 immunity [7]. However, other types of T cells, particularly the Th1 and Tc1 subsets, are present in the airways and parenchyma of smokers with COPD [8]. Thus, the precise influence of CSE on CD4+ T cells, particularly whether cigarette smoke suppresses or facilitates the function and proliferation of these cells, remains unclear.

        • harleyrider1978 says:

          So it appears somebody found a new angle to operate from to get a anti-tobacco grant as that’s how the game seems to work. You want a grant then take what your already doing and figure out a way to connect it to being against smoking in any fashion you can to do it……….If ya want the money for your real research then provide us along with a few new names of folks not often in anti-tobacco studies so we can have the look of being innocent.

        • carol2000 says:

          Good catch. You’re right, they’re ignoring the role of CMV, which is well-known to skew the distribution of CD4+ T cells, AND it is implicated as a cause of COPD. Note that their comparison groups did NOT include non-smokers with COPD or smokers without, so they’re really comparing people with CMV-related disease, versus non-smokers without, then falsely blaming cigarette smoking for the differences. And CMV is well-known for causing changes in the CD4/CD8 ratio in peripheral blood.

      • Nightlight says:

        I am glad to see finally Chinese jumping on the antismoking bandwagon. Once the the antismoking parasite gets its claws in, it will sap their economic vigor, too, giving the rest a chance again.

  10. carol2000 says:

    Those are the same things I’ve been saying, with one major omission concerning the role of infections in the diseases blamed on smoking: The Nazis could hide behind the excuse of ignorance, while today’s anti-smokers CANNOT.

  11. harleyrider1978 says:

    9 disturbing facts about cigarette smoke exposure

    http://voxxi.com/2014/11/06/facts-about-smoke-exposure/#comments-wrapper

    This one is worth destroying if ya want to take the time………….It delves deep on 3rd hand bullshit!

    I just cant get into hit it……..

    • carol2000 says:

      It’s a POS website with no comments and presumably few readers. Also I am not a member of FecesBook, so I can’t get in either.

  12. harleyrider1978 says:

    Audrey Silk‎NYC Citizens Lobbying Against Smoker Harassment (C.L.A.S.H.)

    3 hrs ·

    .

    We’re on a roll. This, from North Carolina. Lots of good reading in this rejection, including:

    “I think that’s taking away freedom,” Commissioner Shirley Brinkley said of prohibiting smoking in the Great Outdoors. “This is God’s country — the air is His and it’s free.”

    http://www.mtairynews.com/…/City-tobacco-free-plan-goes-up-…

    City tobacco-free plan goes up in smoke –

    A proposal to make outside venues such as city parks and recreation facilities tobacco-free never even got to first base with the Mount Airy Boa…

    http://www.mtairynews.com/news/home_top-news/50637528/City-tobacco-free-plan-goes-up-in-smoke

  13. harleyrider1978 says:

    Zayats Liontamer‎Smokers Against Discrimination

    November 5 at 8:46am ·

    .

    ‘The bullshit just keeps on rolling in. And those who know me know I refrain from posting any new BS that can be considered of a general nature (e.g. any new anti studies that are same ole, same ole) It’s only the extraordinary that merits a mention… to mock them.

    I mean this is downright scary… A worthless study that concludes with the researcher rubbing his hands together about giving a treatment to humans for something that doesn’t exist. Oh, and a reason to put blame on smoking for obesity. Cigarette smoke is the answer for every ill. Meanwhile the whole world will be dropping dead because the real reasons won’t be treated properly.’ (via Audrey Silk)

    Secondhand cigarette smoke causes weight gain

    Secondhand cigarette smoke not only increases the risk of cardiovascular and metabolic problems, it may also lead to gain weight, a new study has warned.

    deccanherald.com

  14. harleyrider1978 says:

    Napoleon summed it all up very nicely.
    “This vice brings in one hundred million francs in taxes every year.
    I will certainly forbid it at once – as soon as you can name a virtue that brings in as much revenue”.
    – Napoleon III, (1808-73) French emperor.
    Reply when asked to ban smoking. Anekdotenschatz (H. Hoffmeister) Source: Bloomsbury book of quotations

  15. harleyrider1978 says:

    You have got to see this picture on the new York post
    The cover of the New York Post says it all. Continuing cover of all the elections coming up! #Election2014 #foxnews

    It says it all!

  16. beobrigitte says:

    H/T Rose for reminding us of Tobacco policies in Nazi Germany: not as simple as it seems, published in 2008.

    The tobacco industry and its supporters have linked contemporary proposals for tobacco control measures with Nazi policies.

    And, the Tobacco Control Industry is surprised?

    “Hitler writes from his grave”

    ‘Volksgesundheit’ (public health); ‘Arbeitskraft’ (worker, strength to do work; being productive); ‘Volksvermoegen’ (public property/money) and ‘Bevoelkerungspolitische Ziele’ (Population political goals) are all new words invented by Tobacco Control? REALLY??

    … tobacco control activists being attacked as fanatics while tobacco control measures widely accepted elsewhere are presented as unimaginable totalitarian attacks on individual liberty, comparable to those during the fascist regime in the 1930s and 1940s.

    Tobacco Control ‘activists’ sure do present a prototype of a narcissistic fanatic. Of course I would NEVER think of mentioning this.
    For the rest: see above: “Hitler writes from his grave”

    For example, a search on the pro-smoking website, http://www.forces.org yields over 200 hits with the word ‘Hitler’.
    We all do wonder how Hitler could possibly be associated with tobacco control advocates. Perhaps the fight against smokers and smoking (and of lately, vapers and vaping) by co-incidence, of course, uses templates from Hitler’s anti-smoking campaign?

    Even Wikipedia dropped a few clangers; the most amusing one:

    Cigarette consumption per capita
    per year in Germany & the US[13]
    Year
    1930 1935 1940 1944
    ——————————————————————–
    Germany 490 510 1,022 743
    ———————————————————————
    United States 1,485 1,564 1,976 3,039

    The war and Hitler’s anti-smoking campaign ended in 1945 and the above table does not include the very much thriving black market then.
    Funnily enough, Wikipedia then proceeds further down:
    After the collapse of Nazi Germany at the end of World War II, American cigarette manufacturers quickly entered the German black market. Illegal smuggling of tobacco became prevalent,[50] and the anti-smoking campaign started by the Nazis ceased to exist after the fall of the Third Reich.[8] In 1949, approximately 400 million cigarettes manufactured in the United States entered Germany illegally every month.

    No, the GERMAN cigarette black market collapsed (my grandad’s tobacco apparently was awful and my mother and her siblings were glad to be rid of the work of sorting tobacco leaves, hanging them up in bunches to dry etc. etc. etc.)
    American (and any other tobacco) could be bought VERY LEGALLY immediately after the war ended. But, yes, the anti-smoking campaign did collapse. No-one wanted to be reminded of Hitler’s ideas.
    The only ‘illegal’ acquiring tobacco then was for the ‘lucky’ ones that got a (menial) job in the occupational forces’ air bases/military bases. All they had to do was ask someone to get tobacco/cigarettes from the air base/military base shops for them.

    Now, to be frank, I cannot be bothered counting how many times I used the word ‘Hitler’. But I do keep referring to SHS as ‘passive smoke’. After all, it was Hitler who ?invented, but definitely used this term for what tobacco control wants to call second-hand-smoke.

    Got to stick with the roots.

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