Give Them Respirators

With nurses coming down with Ebola in both Dallas and Madrid hospitals, despite being fully suited up, it’s beginning to rather look as if insufficient precautions have been taken.

Most of the blame is being laid on the nurses themselves, for not following strict procedures – although neither nurse seems to have any clear recollection of doing things the wrong way.

Now, via ZeroHedge, a new claim is being made by CIDRAP:

The Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy (CIDRAP) is a global leader in addressing public health preparedness and emerging infectious disease response. Founded in 2001, CIDRAP is part of the Academic Health Center at the University of Minnesota.

And they’re saying:

We believe there is scientific and epidemiologic evidence that Ebola virus has the potential to be transmitted via infectious aerosol particles both near and at a distance from infected patients, which means that healthcare workers should be wearing respirators, not facemasks.

At the moment the medical orthodoxy is that Ebola is only transmitted by coming into physical contact with body fluids. To which CIDRAP responds;

This reflects an incorrect and outmoded understanding of infectious aerosols, which has been institutionalized in policies, language, culture, and approaches to infection control. We will address this below. Briefly, however, the important points are that virus-laden bodily fluids may be aerosolized and inhaled while a person is in proximity to an infectious person and that a wide range of particle sizes can be inhaled and deposited throughout the respiratory tract.

The reason that aerosols are usually rejected as a transmission medium is because very small droplets ( < 5 μm) are believed to evaporate almost immediately. However, CIDRAP says:

Experimental work has shown that Marburg and Ebola viruses can be isolated from sera and tissue culture medium at room temperature for up to 46 days, but at room temperature no virus was recovered from glass, metal, or plastic surfaces. Aerosolized (1-3 mcm) Marburg, Ebola, and Reston viruses, at 50% to 55% relative humidity and 72°F, had biological decay rates of 3.04%, 3.06%. and 1.55% per minute, respectively. These rates indicate that 99% loss in aerosol infectivity would occur in 93, 104, and 162 minutes, respectively.

In still air, 3-mcm particles can take up to an hour to settle. With air currents, these and smaller particles can be transported considerable distances before they are deposited on a surface.

So infective aerosols can float around in air at room temperature for 2 or 3 hours, they say.

This strikes me as being entirely plausible. As I understand it, an aerosol particle won’t evaporate if it’s floating in 100% humid air. And in Monrovia, Liberia, air humidity quite often approaches 100% relative humidity (as I can remember from the times I sat in its airport, waiting for my plane to be re-fuelled).

And today, as a matter of interest, I found out how big Ebola virus particles are  (970 nm long, 80 nm round) and worked out how many could fit into a 0.05 ml drop of water, and a 5 μm aerosol droplet. My back-of-envelope calculations gave a maximum 8000 billion in a drop of water, and 20,000 in an aerosol droplet (although actual values would undoubtedly be very much less).

However, since none of the friends and family of the Madrid and Dallas Ebola patients seem to have shown any symptoms as yet, it rather looks as if you need to get a very large dose of virus particles before you contract Ebola. And it’s mostly hospital nurses attending dying Ebola patients who would be in the kind of environments where there are very large quantities of the virus present. And they should be provided with the maximum possible protection, particularly with a disease with which they have little or no experience.

Also, since in Liberia something like 40% of the population seems to be immune to Ebola, it rather suggests that very low doses of Ebola may be sufficient to stimulate the immune system to produce antibodies against it, and provide immunity.

So as long as Ebola victims are quickly identified and isolated, and their nursing staff given maximum protection (which they don’t seem to be getting yet), it ought to be quite easy to contain any Ebola outbreak.

And then they can go back to their “tobacco epidemic”. Or can they?

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About Frank Davis

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18 Responses to Give Them Respirators

  1. harleyrider1978 says:

    Seems we should take into consideration the effect of a combined ecig and smoking indoor campaign for the added aid in helping to reduce its airborne ability………..

    Medicinal Smoke and the already FDA approved Propylene glycol and dipropylene glycol.

    Propylene glycol and dipropylene glycol were first registered in 1950 and 1959, respectively, by the FDA for use in hospitals as air disinfectants. (page 4, paragraph 1).

    In a previous post, I had shared the summary of research that had been done in 1942 by Dr. Robertson regarding the antibacterial properties of vaporized propylene glycol, but I had never heard that the FDA wound up approving it for the purpose of an air disinfectant in hospitals.

    Indoor Non-Food: Propylene glycol is used on the following use sites: air treatment (eating establishments, hospital, commercial, institutional, household, bathroom, transportational facilities); medical premises and equipment, commercial, institutional and industrial premises and equipment; (page 6, paragraph 2)

    Method and Rates of Application

    Air Sanitizer

    Read the directions included with the automatic dispenser for proper installation of unit and refill. Remove cap from aerosol can and place in a sequential aerosol dispenser which automatically releases a metered amount every 15 minutes. One unit should treat 6000 ft of closed air space… For regular, non-metered applications, spray room until a light fog forms. To sanitize the air, spray 6 to 8 seconds in an average size room (10’x10′). (page 6, paragraph 6)

    And then that damn tobacco plant yet again gets brought up producing a protein to cure the illness yet does CDC or even WHO mention it much less push for planting 100s of acres to produce serum for the Propagandized Epidemic that’s going to end the world………

    Or is it just another Farce political stunt to get a few 10s of Billions to put in the pockets of health Nazis again…………They are going broke you know.

    • harleyrider1978 says:

      Miss Roses medicinal smoke studies……….

      Medicinal Smoke Reduces Airborne Bacteria – 2007

      “This study represents a comprehensive analysis and scientific validation of our ancient knowledge about the effect of ethnopharmacological aspects of natural products’ smoke for therapy and health care on airborne bacterial composition and dynamics, using the Biolog® microplate panelsand Microlog® database.

      In this study, we have designed an air sampler for microbiological air sampling during the treatment of the room with medicinal smoke. In addition, elimination of the aerial pathogenic bacteria due to the smoke is reported too.

      We have observed that 1 h treatment of medicinal smoke emination by burning wood and a mixture of odoriferous and medicinal herbs (havan sámagri = material used in oblation to fire all over India) on aerial bacterial population caused over 94% reduction of bacterial counts by 60 min and the ability of the smoke to purify or disinfect the air and to make the environment cleaner was maintained up to 24 h in the closed room.

      Absence of pathogenic bacteria Corynebacterium urealyticum, Curtobacterium flaccumfaciens, Enterobacter aerogenes (Klebsiella mobilis), Kocuria rosea, Pseudomonassyringae pv. persicae, Staphylococcus lentus, and Xanthomonas campestris pv. tardicrescens inthe open room even after 30 days is indicative of the bactericidal potential of the medicinal smoke treatment.

      We have demonstrated that using medicinal smoke it is possible to completely eliminate diverse plant and human pathogenic bacteria of the air within confined space.
      Work has implications to use the smoke generated by burning wood and a mixture of odoriferousand medicinal herbs, within confined spaces such as animal barns and seed/grain warehouses to disinfect the air and to make the environment cleaner.
      Work indicates that certain known medicinal constituents from the havan sámagri can thus be added to the burning farm material while disposing unwanted agriculture organic material, in order to reduce plant pathogenicorganisms.

      In particular, it highlights the fact that we must think well beyond the physical aspects of smoke on plants in natural habitats and impacts heavily on our understanding of fire as adriving force in evolution.
      We have demonstrated that using medicinal smoke it is possible to contain diverse pathogenic bacteria of the air we breathe.

      The work also highlights the fact about medicinal smoke and that a lot of natural products have potential for use as medicine in the smoke form as a form of drug delivery and as a promising source of new active natural ingredients for containing indoor airborne infections within confined spaces used for storage of agriculture comodities.

      The dynamic chemical and biological interactions occurring in the atmosphere are much more complex than has been previously realized. The findings warrant a need for further evaluation of various ingredients present in the complex mixture of odoriferous and medicinal herbs, individually and in various combinations to identify the active principlesinvolved in the bactericidal property of the medicinal smoke, applied in the above discussed fashion.”
      Formerly http: //www.agri-history.org/pdf/Medic…

    • beobrigitte says:

      Harley, don’t forget that ‘vaping-reminds-of-smoking’….. That is for these repulsive people reason enough to squander a hell of a lot of cash this week in Moskow.

  2. waltc says:

    But.. Seems to me the unprotected family members, who also must have taken care of the guy, would also have been exposed to very large doses–no? And before we know for sure that they didn’t get it and why, we’d have to wait those 21 or 46 or 92 days. (And if they didn’t, the why could be very important. )

    Then too since those smoker-free airlines now recirculate the same air eternally now that they’re not clearing it for smoke ( one of the reasons the airlines liked the ban as a money saver) how about the viruses running thru the plane for many hours?

    Quick news flash from here: 4 sick passengers arriving from Dubai at Boston airport have been rushed into hospital quarantine. No more details than that are now known.

    • Frank Davis says:

      family members, who also must have taken care of the guy, would also have been exposed to very large doses–no?

      No.

      But I’m using an exponential virus population growth model. So if someone carries a population of 1 virus on day 1, they have 2 on day 2, 4 on day 3, 8 on day 4, 16 on day 5, and so on. And they spread some small fraction of their viral populations to their environment. And they only become highly infective when they’re carrying very large populations – billions – of viruses, coughing and sneezing and vomiting, and are about to die.

      And I’m furthermore supposing that it takes more than 1 single virus particle to infect someone with Ebola, but a large enough dose of them to overwhelm the host body’s natural defences.

      So when the Liberian guy – Duncan – arrived in the USA, not showing any symptoms, he had a low viral population, which slowly grew until he began to show symptoms. It was still growing a couple of days later when he was admitted to hospital, and had become an enormous population when he died 10 days later.

      So it’s unlikely that he infected anyone while he was travelling. And not much more likely when he started to develop symptoms.But by the time he died, he had become highly infective to the nurses caring for him in hospital.

      The incubation period of Ebola is 2 – 21 days, and his friends and family still have about 5 days to go before that period is up. He was admitted into hospital on the 28th. (Although infected clothes and sheets remained in the flat where he was staying for another 4 or 5 days).

      • harleyrider1978 says:

        Frank the American news is finally saying why didn’t they make it a no fly zone to contain it.

        Answer you cant make an epidemic happen if you contain it now can you…………

        Not that it will be an epidemic ever. But it is just 3 weeks before the democrats get their asses handed to them at the polls…………. Yes they would create a worldwide scare to take the front page rather than face up to the polls and the debates with all their failed policies. That’s always been my opinion of the whole thing since it was first mentioned in the news. Its a political front job and that’s it.

        • harleyrider1978 says:

          Massive Historic GOP Landslide is Coming

          Wayne Allyn Root | October 13, 2014

          The GOP is about to win another historic landslide- similar to the one I predicted publicly in 2010. Back then, I predicted the GOP would win over 60 Congressional seats. The experts said I was crazy. I wasn’t. The GOP won 63 seats.

          Another historic tidal wave is coming in November. Democrats will be wiped out. It’s all breaking wrong for Obama and the Democrats.

          How bad is it breaking? The government just last week announced fantastic economic news- 244,000 jobs created in the month of September. No one cares. In the latest CNBC poll- after hearing that news- American’s confidence in Obama’s economic policies dropped to all-time lows of 24%.

          Considering Obama has the unwavering support of blacks and almost perfect support of other minorities (Latinos, gays, single mothers, etc) that means Obama’s support among the rest of America must be near Z-E-R-O. Outside of black voters, Obama has the least support of any President in U.S. history.

          The reasons why are simple. Even the greatest salesmen in political history eventually wears out his welcome when the consumers try the product and it’s a rip-off. At that point, no one believes a word you say. At that point, no amount of poetry, propaganda or fancy salesmanship can save the deal. All credibility is gone.

          America is a mess. The borders are wide open. Illegal immigration is out of control. Illegal children are being sent to schools across this country- thereby risking the spread of diseases such as TB or the deadly childhood illness Enterovirus.

          Then there’s Ebola. Obama’s response to Ebola has been disastrous. He has done nothing to secure the border with Mexico. He has refused to ban incoming flights from African countries where Ebola is raging. And sending over 3000 U.S. troops into harms way into that same “Ebola hot zone” is reckless and fruitless. Thousands of soldiers could become exposed and bring Ebola home to America.

          Then there’s terrorism and ISIS. A new CBS poll shows voters give the GOP a 21-point advantage over Democrats on the issue of terrorism. Worse, a plurality of voters say Obama’s policies has made the country less safe.

          Of course there’s nothing that hits home more than the economy. Voters finally understand that there is no “recovery”- no matter how many times Obama and his socialist cabal claim it to be true. Voters know there are no jobs, no matter what the jobs report claims. All they have to do is look around. No amount of propaganda can change what they see with their own eyes.

          Want proof? The government’s own JOLT report came out on Tuesday. It says that monthly hiring has plummeted. Dropped off a cliff.

          It was down 294,000 positions last month- that’s the worst drop since 2010…and the third worst number since the Lehman Brothers collapse in 2008.

          So now I ask you…how could there be good news about jobs created…at the same time the government’s own report shows a severe halt to hiring? Somebody’s cooking the books folks. How can there be jobs if there’s no hiring?

          But I’ve saved the most important reason for a GOP landslide for last- Obamacare.

          Last week was the one year anniversary of Obamacare. It’s a date that will live in infamy. It’s no longer a theory. It’s reality. Middle class America knows first hand what a failure and disaster it is. Meaning Obama’s lies are rendered meaningless.

          Millions of Americans have lost their health insurance. Millions more have seen massive unaffordable increases. Millions more have seen their jobs cut from full-time to part-time. Funny how none of these facts have made it into the mainstream media.

          Take this author and small businessman for example. My family’s health insurance has gone from $500 per month to $1,700 per month thanks to Obamacare. But my fun was just beginning. Because the tripling of my rates wasn’t the worst part. In July my family received a notice from Aetna that our insurance was being cancelled. The reason? Because of the mandates of Obamacare, Aetna can no longer afford to insure my family for $1,700 per month.

          What will the new rate be? $2000 per month? $2500 per month? Will they charge me $30,000 per year (before taxes) to provide health coverage for a family that has never experienced a major illness?

          The lives of average middle class Americans are being ruined by Obamacare. Since the average income in America is about $50,000 per year, how will anyone afford $20,000 or $25,000 or $30,000 insurance bills? You think people are panicking across America? You’re damn right they are.

          But the disaster of Obamacare is about more than dramatic rate increases. It’s about the destruction of full-time jobs. Obamacare has turned America into a nation of part-time jobs.

          Into the fray – enter WalMart. America’s biggest employer just announced they are ending healthcare benefits for part-time employees. WalMart employees over 1.3 million Americans.

          Obamacare is a tragedy for middle class Americans. Like the title of my new book, it is “The Murder of the Middle Class.” The lives of millions of middle class Americans- many of them independent voters, or blue dog Democrats- have been damaged badly. They are angry and they will take it out on Obama and the Democratic Party this November.

          A historic landslide is forming. My prediction is that most every close race will break the way of the GOP in the closing days. Republicans will take control of the Senate and expand their advantage in the House by as much as a double digit seat increase (once thought impossible).

          If Obama thinks the news about ISIS, Ebola and the economy is bad, wait until he sees the headlines the day after the election.

          http://anmnews.com/massive-historic-gop-landslide-is-coming/

      • beobrigitte says:

        But I’m using an exponential virus population growth model. So if someone carries a population of 1 virus on day 1, they have 2 on day 2, 4 on day 3, 8 on day 4, 16 on day 5, and so on. And they spread some small fraction of their viral populations to their environment. And they only become highly infective when they’re carrying very large populations – billions – of viruses, coughing and sneezing and vomiting,

        This is about right! The affected individuals do not have to be on deaths’ door, though; the minute the start showing the symptoms (which occur when the virus breaks the cell membranes and releases all it’s ‘offspring’ to infect more cells – and finding another host)
        the individual person is spreading the infection.

        And I’m furthermore supposing that it takes more than 1 single virus particle to infect someone with Ebola, but a large enough dose of them to overwhelm the host body’s natural defences.

        One single virus particle will induce andibody production – but it can go on a rampage if the host does not recognise it to be an intruder! Whilst we retain the ‘memory’ of numerous previous ‘bugs’ infecting us, thus being able to mount an immune response, for some we do not retain this memory for other ‘bugs’. And the old bugs morph into new ones….
        This strain of Ebola has not been encountered and survived by many people; their blood is currently worth it’s weight in gold as desperate people are so desperat being transfused their blood that they ignore ABO incompatibility. What is the number of deaths due to transfusion reaction listed as Ebola? It will be small but the WHO is too busy in Moskow deciding the fate of the e-cigarette and dreaming up more hate actions against resilient smokers who just won’t die, to look into it.

        When I first read Prof. Grieshaber’s post on 16.09.14 I was horrified at what he predicted. Now I think he was optimistic.

  3. Rose says:

    Courtesy of Dick Puddlecote

    JOHNSON: The UN’s health agency works on a global tobacco tax in secret

    “A tobacco reduction conference hosted by the World Health Organization, the United Nation’s public health agency, took a hostile and alarming turn on Monday when the public was kicked out of the meeting.

    The tyrannical attack on the principles of transparency and accountability took place when delegates from more than 175 countries who are part of the Framework Convention on Tobacco Control, a UN global anti-tobacco treaty, agreed unanimously to boot spectators. Delegates then voted to ban the public from the Moscow conference center where the event is taking place for the duration of the week-long meeting.”

    “None of the delegates believed that taxpayers from around the world had the right to attend a meeting that devoured almost $20 million in public funds over the past two years paying for salaries, travel expenses and other costs related to the biennial convention.

    Once the vote to ban the public passed, the meeting ground to a halt as stunned and shaken spectators were led away from the convention hall by Russian security personnel.”

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/oct/13/johnson-uns-health-agency-works-global-tobacco-tax/

    And lots more

    • harleyrider1978 says:

      I guess when your that scared of everyone its not going to end well for your agenda……….

      Id expect brief case bombs next in the building.

      • harleyrider1978 says:

        A 10 dollar pack would then cost 33 dollars a pack…………….We can officially say the ASSYLUM is now run by the INMATES!

  4. harleyrider1978 says:

    Lowry: Military vs Marlboro

    By Rich Lowry

    | The National Review

    First Published 4 hours ago • Updated 4 hours ago

    We are losing a war in Iraq and Syria, the military is shrinking dangerously as global threats are growing, and yet the Pentagon is mustering its forces against tobacco products.

    The Department of Defense is studying a ban on the sale of cigarettes, cigars and chewing tobacco on bases and ships. Without committing himself, Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel has spoken favorably of the idea, citing health-care costs: “I think we owe it to our people.”

    So, we can’t figure out how to degrade and destroy ISIS, as repeatedly promised by the commander in chief, but just maybe we can figure out how to defeat Marlboro and Copenhagen. This would make a lot of sense — if Michael Bloomberg were the grand strategist of the United States.

    The military life frequently involves the kinds of situations that lend themselves to smoking, namely mind-numbing boredom and incredible stress, sometimes one after another, so it has long been associated with smoking.

    There were national pushes to provide cigarettes to the troops in World War I and World War II. Gen. John Pershing said cigarettes were as important as bullets. The heavily stubbled, bone-weary GIs depicted in the iconic Bill Mauldin cartoons often have cigarettes drooping from their lips. Up until 1975, cigarettes were included in military rations.

    During the battle of Fallujah, Lance Cpl. James Blake Miller became known as the Marlboro Marine when a picture of him, grimy and bloodied, with a cigarette dangling from his mouth, ran in 150 newspapers and magazines. The Los Angeles Times photographer who took the picture later wrote of the terrors of that battle and how when the world was exploding around them, “Everybody dragged deeply on cigarettes.”

    (The photo was so instantly popular that the Marines offered to yank Miller off the front line so he wouldn’t get hurt; Miller refused, and has suffered terribly from post-traumatic stress disorder.)

    Of course, cigarettes aren’t good for you. But if they are a significant health risk, so is signing up to risk life and limb for your country. Rep. Duncan Hunter, a California Republican and Marine reservist who has rallied congressional opposition to the ban, puts it this way: “We sleep in the dirt for this country. We get shot at for this country. But we can’t have a cigarette if we want to for this country, because that’s unhealthy.”

    A prohibition on tobacco sales would be a step toward denying members of the military access to consumer products that are freely available to the general population. No one tries to stop the black-turtleneck-wearing graduate student studying Baudelaire from buying a pack of cigarettes, but the Marine whose rifle is his best friend is another story.

    What sense is there in that? And does it not occur to the prohibitionists that if cigarettes aren’t sold on base, an enterprising soldier or sailor might buy them from the local 7-Eleven?

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/opinion/58519235-82/cigarettes-military-marlboro-battle.html.csp

    • smokervoter says:

      Bravo! to Rich Lowry. He’s been on the panel of the McLaughlin Group, my longtime favorite political roundtable, for years. I don’t think I’ve missed one show in the past decade. I’ve always admired his well thought out commentary. Somehow I knew he detested antismokers. Now I’m sure.

      And kudos to Rep. Duncan Hunter (of San Diego), he’s always been one of my faves, along with Dana Rohrabacher of nearby Orange county. They’re both what you call Rock Ribbed Southern California Republicans and I’m proud to be included in that basic political description myself, despite the fact that there are only about 28% of us (registered to vote) these days.

  5. smokervoter says:

    Rush Limbaugh (audience base 20+ million) spent over an hour taking Tom Frieden and the CDC to task yesterday over his maniacal emphasis on Non-communicable Diseases and his tenure as Michael Bloomberg’s chosen one to head New York’s health department. It seems he distinguished himself there as Mr. Lifestyle Police Chief and positively relished the role. Now the chickens are coming home to roost.

    Rush was outraged that Hillary Clinton had the nerve to intimate that Republican budget cuts at CDC were at least partially responsible for its initial lacklustre response to the Ebola outbreak. Under Frieden’s leadership the CDC was spending money on voter outreach programs (no doubt to push smoking bans) and solving “food desert” problems. It wasn’t a matter of total funding as much as it was the prioritisation of said monies.

    Bobby Jindal, the Republican Governor of Louisiana has penned an Op-Ed critical of the agency as well. The sharks are circling Dr. NCD and I’m loving it. This is the man who has gone out of his way to make my life (as a smoker) miserable and it’s nice to see him squirming in the hot seat.

    To hear Frieden describe it, hazmat suits and respirators should have been required safety equipment for non-smokers to enter New York’s smoky bars before he came along to save the day. Hey Tom, try that meme out right about now and see what kind of reaction you get.

    He’ll probably survive though, as gushing Healthism reigns supreme right now. It’s the Health N’ Safety Twist sweeping the country from coast to coast; it’s the latest thang and he’s Chubby Checker.

    CVS Pharmacy, in announcing their no tobacco policy with syrupy commercials capable of inducing diabetes by themselves, is rolling out its new corporate slogan as well. It goes something like, “After all, at CVS, Health is Everything !”.

    • harleyrider1978 says:

      Health is Everything

      More like ” Healthism is everything”

      Destroy the healthists and you destroy the UN agenda…………..

  6. beobrigitte says:

    Most of the blame is being laid on the nurses themselves, for not following strict procedures – although neither nurse seems to have any clear recollection of doing things the wrong way.

    Of course they don’t! They will have followed what they were instructed to do. Blaming the nurses reassures the public that the disease ‘does not spread easily’…..

    Experimental work has shown that Marburg and Ebola viruses can be isolated from sera and tissue culture medium at room temperature for up to 46 days, but at room temperature no virus was recovered from glass, metal, or plastic surfaces. Aerosolized (1-3 mcm) Marburg, Ebola, and Reston viruses, at 50% to 55% relative humidity and 72°F, had biological decay rates of 3.04%, 3.06%. and 1.55% per minute, respectively. These rates indicate that 99% loss in aerosol infectivity would occur in 93, 104, and 162 minutes, respectively.

    Now, take our average airport with xxx amount of people getting off one plane to catch the next. I tend to do this to break down the number of hours spent in a smoker-phobic plane on long haul flights. (Reykjavik on the way to the States is not good – no smoking cubicles there!! However, long haul flighers to Asia changing planes in Munich will be pleasantly surprised! I almost fell to my knees with gratitude when there was a COMFORTABLE smoking area NEXT to the gate I had to wait to get onto my plane!!!)
    93 minutes, a sealed off area (air conditioning 20 years out of date because a man with the name REPACE decided that only an indoor tornado would remove this ultra-hyper-super-dangerous passive smoke indoors!) with 2 people starting to show the first symptoms is enough. The minute you start having the FIRST symptoms as a response of your body’s reaction to infected cells being lysed, releasing the virus in an enclosed space near other people, the disease will spread.

    But……. The WHO has just issued (via the BBC NEWS) that by December the number of Ebola infected people will reach 10 000.

    Aren’t we smokers (and vapers) the ones to survive it? Debbie et al pushed us into isolation with “smokers will be exiled to the outdoors”.

    • harleyrider1978 says:

      Its funny Id like to see a virus survive the smoke in this house…………..They cant we smoke to much. So we get our viruses going out into public places not at home……..

      • beobrigitte says:

        Nicotine is quite effective when it comes to bacteria; it isineffective to viruses. That is until a strain evolves in a nicotine free environment.

        Have a few thoughts about it.

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