A Loss of Self-Confidence

A lot to process today in the comments. But the line that stood out strongest for me was from one of Nightlight’s comments:

…smokers believe ‘smoking kills’(hence it is sin). Just as there are no muggers organizing to defend their rights to mug, there won’t be smokers organizing to defend their habit, while being under the ‘smoking kills’ spell.

I think that’s exactly right. Most people believe that ‘smoking kills’. It’s more or less an unquestionable fact of life for them.

But why does almost everybody believe that ‘smoking kills’? Particularly when their own lifetime experience of smoking has been that it hasn’t killed them. And hasn’t killed anybody else either. And is in fact completely harmless.

I think there’s a wider problem here than just smoking. Because the same thing is happening with global warming. Why does half the population believe the human-produced carbon dioxide is causing dangerous global warming? Why do they believe this when their own personal experience should be telling them that the climate is much the same as it always has been?

I think the answer is that most people (or at least a great many people) now discount their own experience and their own judgment, and instead place their trust in ‘experts’ or ‘authorities’, and in particular in medical and scientific authorities. They have lost their self-confidence and their self-belief.

And part of the reason for that may lie in the extraordinary successes in both science and medicine over the past century or so. In medicine it was the development of the germ theory of disease which led to vast improvements in public health, and the virtual elimination of many endemic diseases. And in science there have been extraordinary developments in all sorts of fields ranging from radio to television, aviation, spaceflight, nuclear weapons, computers, automobiles, and more. And the result has been that doctors and scientists came to be seen as wonder-workers, and their every word accepted as gospel truth. All the more so, given most people know very little about either medicine or science.

So if doctors tell them that smoking kills, and climate scientists tell them that human-generated carbon dioxide is dangerously warming the planet, most people will believe them. And in fact, most people will believe absolutely anything such authorities tell them.

So most people have ceded their autonomy to authorities of one sort or other. They no longer trust their own eyes or their own experience or their own judgment. They believe what other people – authorities and experts of one sort or other – tell them.

And this is also true in another matter: the rise of the European Union. Because the EU entails European nation states ceding national autonomy to the European Union. It’s another case of people saying: “We don’t know what’s best for us. You tell us.” Only in this case it’s not been the success of the EU in doing anything, but the failure of European nation states to avoid catastrophic war in the past century, that has led to a collective loss of national self-confidence. A hundred years ago today, Europe was made up of proud, self-confident, expansionist nations. Over the next 30 or 40 years, almost all that pride and self-confidence and expansiveness was lost in World War ship-wreck. And what now remains is a sort of European life raft, on which everyone clings together in fear of the circling sharks. And it’s perhaps this loss of national self-confidence that has led in turn to the loss of individual personal self-confidence and self-belief, and the emergence of guiding authorities, and assorted cults and gurus, to inject new beliefs into the vacuum.

And once the word of doctors and scientists and ‘experts’ and gurus came to be completely uncritically accepted, the way was open for an army of charlatans to invade medicine and science. Because nobody was going to call them on any of their claims. They could get away with murder. And they did.

Such a situation cannot continue indefinitely. Because the arrival of the charlatans means that the ‘science’ that they purport to be doing is all fraudulent. And it also means that their prescriptions and advice are ineffective or counter-productive. So now we have healthist ‘life-style’ medicine which, in the form of smoking bans, is actually doing colossal social and economic damage. And we have wind farms and solar farms which produce expensive and intermittent energy. And we have an EU whose single currency has become a strait-jacket for its member states. And so on.

And we also have more and more non-smokers getting lung cancer that smoking was supposed to cause. And global warming has stopped for the past 17 years. And the EU empire that was supposed to prevent war has now expanded to the frontiers of Russia, triggering a geopolitical crisis.

The result is that public confidence in political, scientific, and medical authority is beginning to collapse. It’s coming more and more into question. There’s a growing sense that maybe the experts don’t know everything after all.

What’s coming down the track looks set to be a complete collapse of trust in all authority. From believing everything they’re told, people will swing to disbelieving everything. For the ‘sceptics’, whether it’s scepticism about antismoking or global warming alarmism, or European integration, are the new disbelievers (or ‘deniers’ or ‘denialists’, as their opponents). They don’t believe what they’re told. And their numbers are multiplying, and are set keep on rising, the more that the once-trusted authorities prove themselves to be both incompetent and deceitful.

The recent EU elections suggest a rapid upsurge in political scepticism. Fewer and fewer people trust or believe in the pro-European political establishment.

It’s nothing new. Exactly 500 years ago, the disbelievers and sceptics and ‘denialists’ were called Protestants, and they had ceased to believe in the authority of the Pope in Rome. What followed was the Reformation, and an upheaval whose effects are still being felt 500 years later.

About Frank Davis

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44 Responses to A Loss of Self-Confidence

  1. Marie says:

    “Be your own authority” has been my view for many years. So I agree :)

  2. junican says:

    I must to bed, but before I do, I must project the demand to know why we taxpayers are throwing millions pounds away funding the EU. We need to know the finances,

  3. waltc says:

    It’s true that no one “dies of smoking” and that at least till recently, no one knew anyone who had. But that’s changed in this way.: A few days a ago, a friend (call her E) told me that her old friend (A) had come over for drinks and that when E lit a cigarette, A would look at her sadly and sigh, “I wish you woudn’t do that.” This was not a case of SHS-itis but, as E explained to me, “A’s father just recently died from smoking”. I said, “No one dies from smoking. What did he die of?” E said, “I don’t know. A heart attack, I think. But his doctor told A that he died of smoking.”

    I did elaborately explain to E that more nonsmokers than smokers die of heart attacks and there was no way for the doctor to attribute smoking as the cause. But I had to exolain that– even to a smoker. And of course there’d be no way to convince Ms. A. Because The Doctor Said So. Or IOW, nowadays people do believe they know people who died of smoking.

    Ultimately, you and smokervoter are right: it has to be done politically. UKIP. Rand Paul. But both will still need to build large enough constituencies to gain majority power. In NY, which leans so far to the left it nearly abuts California, it’s almost impossible to get a non-“progressive” elected and the few Republicans who get in are just half-assed liberals (the only reason they get in) and just as vicious to smokers as the Democrats. Similarly, campus boards, like the campuses themselves, are rigidly PC and “progressive” from teachers to administrators (who pass it on to the majority of students) , and here in nyc, the condo boards are made up of mini control freak limousine liberals. IOW, we’ve got our work cut out for us there, too.

    • Frank Davis says:

      Because The Doctor Said So.

      That’s it exactly. The Doctor is the final arbiter. The Doctor knows everything. The Doctor doesn’t even have to give any reasons for believing what he does. His word is law. He’s infallible, just like the Pope in Rome.

      We’re beyond all science here. And we’re beyond all reason. We have returned to mediaeval superstition. Perhaps we never really ever escaped from it in the first place.

    • smokervoter says:

      In NY, which leans so far to the left it nearly abuts California

      I like that, and it’s sooo true. And California in turn leans so far to the left that it nearly abuts North Korea.

  4. waltc says:

    Faith in govt is collapsing here too. Scandal upon scandal, lie after lie exposed as the lies they are. But. I’m not at all sure that even an increasingly skeptical public has yet gone skeptcal about secondhand smoke because while Bengazi, the VA, the IRS, the NSA, the persecution of reporters, the border crisis, the rampant chaos in Iraq or even Obamacare may not affect them personally, secondhand smoke is killing their babies.

  5. waltc says:

    sorry for serial posts, but Glantz and Chapman (see Siegel’s blog) are in uproar over this, claiming it’s aimed at children to lure them into a lifetime of nicotine addiction. Me, I can;t see how it would lure The Children into vaping, smoking, or having sex with robots though I can see how it would lure robots into having sex with luscious human girls.

  6. harleyrider1978 says:

    Read this I think it spells out the movement is fast Dying or the will to push or even keep existing bans.

    I get a lot of complaints of people that go to patios with their families who are breathing in second-hand smoke, and we all know the perils of second-hand smoke,” said Vandal, whose motion was seconded by Coun. Paula Havixbeck.

    Note here he doesn’t even go into the junk outdoor studies to back up his claims for an outdoor ban nor get specific with the shs indoor junk science.

    we all know the perils of second-hand smoke

    Councillors voted 14-2 in favour of the motion on Wednesday afternoon.

    Vandal said he does not expect a patio smoking ban to be implemented quickly, as the provincial government did not support the city’s indoor smoking ban in the beginning.

    The government didn’t support it in the beginning and leads one to assume they likely want it gone now!

    “We know the province is not going to support anything unless the city takes the lead on it and does the heavy lifting,” he said.

    So if they don’t go into a wild ass crazy fanatical push it aint gonna happen. Problem here is the will for these bans is dead and what they will get is likely a repeal of the existing indoor ban in the future.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/winnipeg-one-step-closer-to-patio-smoking-ban-1.2687653

  7. garyk30 says:

    ” And in fact, most people will believe absolutely anything such authorities tell them.”

    Sadly, most experts have an agenda and will say what ever it takes to further it,

    But, the ‘Truth’ can be found.

    “Much of what people think they know about smoking and lung cancer might be wrong.”

    Anti-smokers claim that about 90% of lung cancers are caused by smoking.

    That number is only true if all ex-smokers lung cancers were caused by smoking.

    http://blisstree.com/feel/what-happens-to-your-body-if-you-stop-smoking-right-now/ -In 10 years your risk of lung cancer will have returned to that of a never-smoker.

    The facts below show that 62% of lung cancer patients were either never-smokers or ex-smokers with the same risk of lung cancer as never-smokers.

    Here is data from a presentation at the 11th International Lung Cancer Conference (ILCC) July 8 – 11, 2010; Rancho Palos Verdes, California
    ‘Much of what people think they know about smoking and lung cancer might be wrong.’

    In a retrospective study of 626 people with lung cancer treated at a hospital in Southern California:

    626 patients with lung cancer

    71 patients (11.3%) were still smoking at the time of their diagnosis

    144 patients(23%) were never-smokers

    245 patients (39% of the total and 60% of the ex-smokers) had not smoked for over 10 years.
    (their risk for lung cancer is the same as that of a never-smoker)

    62% ( 23% + 39%) of the lung cancers patients were either never-smokers or ex-smokers with the same risk of lung cancer as never-smokers.

    62% of the lung cancers could not have been caused by smoking.

    • garyk30 says:

      As for smoking killing people, do not forget Doll’s 50 year long study of British doctors.

      That study proved that smokers and never-smokers have the same risk for dying from the diseases that are claimed to be ’caused’ by smoking.

      • garyk30 says:

        Here is what is shown about heart attacks:

        32% of never-smokers’ deaths were from heart attacks

        28.3% of current smokers deaths were from heart attacks

  8. Rose says:

    Cigarette packets must be ‘drab brown’ under Government plans

    “All cigarette packs will have to be a “drab brown” colour under plans announced by the Government today.
    The proposed regulations will limit information on a packet and see it written only in standard text.
    It will also scrap the sale of ten-packs, with the minimum amount allowed to be sold in one packet set at 20.

    The regulations will be subject to a six week consultation as ministers attempt to push the measures through before the General Election.”
    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/cigarette-packets-must-be-drab-brown-under-government-plans-9565539.html

    That would be remarkably stupid of them.

    • beobrigitte says:

      The regulations will be subject to a six week consultation as ministers attempt to push the measures through before the General Election.”

      The anti-smoking dict… erm… ‘experts’ have assured Cameron and Clegg that PP WILL be the cause of their increasing popularity?

      These days I have little respect for the “Waschlappen” (wet flannels) in politics.

      That would be remarkably stupid of them.

      Indeed, it is.

  9. caprizchka says:

    I wonder if the whole point of all this nonsense is to *shame* and *marginalize* the disobedient. It would seem to me that *obedience to authority* is considered to be the new “intelligence”.

  10. smokervoter says:

    Allow me expound on uncanny North Korean/California similitudes for a moment if I may.

    If you watch Californian teevee at all, and especially the public broadcasting stuff produced in state (like the First5 pre-school shows, bought and paid for by California smokers thanks to Meathead Rob Reiner) you’re constantly bombarded with ever-looping Tobacco Madness PSA’s, climate change apocalyptic mini-dramas and nutritional nagging. It’s all beginning to take on a decidedly single party North Korean look and feel.

    I think they’re studying one anothers color schemes and whatnot, perhaps exchanging media consultants in some sort of cross Pacific cultural exchange program.

    And the butch-cut, round loop-earringed, lefty media presenters seem to be adopting that weird, herky-jerky Pyongyang speech cadence (all done with that maniacal, passively-aggressive angry smile) as they rail on about GMO’s (the new secondhand smoke) and etc. All done on a California blue-sky, greenscreen backdrop.

    Commenter Tom used to wonderfully describe it all as well. I’m not imaging this, nor exaggerating anything here.

    • smokervoter says:

      the butch-cut, round loop-earringed, lefty media presenters

      And that’s just the male presenters.

      • beobrigitte says:

        LOOOOOOOOOOL, smokervoter!!!
        Actually, I did notice something last night when I ended up watching a programme about
        women tennis players being challenged to a game by a 55 year old former Wimbledon champion who strongly objected to women being paid the same as men in the early 70s.
        Whatever this guy’s name was (can’t remember) – he did not sound like people I do remember from the 70s… I also do remember that by then (in Germany) the wages difference was being addressed.
        I do remember thinking of the 70s as being an anti-climax; I was all for womens’ rights but did not see the point in joining the e.g. Alice Schwartzer lark as in my view this would have only tipped the scales to yet another dominance.
        I was ( and still am!!) for what I call true equality. This does take into account that our bodies are ruled by different hormones dominating. It is just plain silly for women pretending to be men and vice versa.

        The fight for dominance does not induce respect, does it?

        • garyk30 says:

          The only truly equal system would be communism.

          All workers get paid and have damn little,equally.

          Except, of course, for the well paid and lavishly funded elites.

        • beobrigitte says:

          Quite on the contrary! Communism isn’t equality – some are more equal than others in this system.

          If I do the same job as you, I expect to be paid the same as you.

        • garyk30 says:

          “If I do the same job as you, I expect to be paid the same as you.”

          Even if you are twice as good at the job as am I ??

        • smokervoter says:

          Beobrigitte, that would be one Bobby Riggs (male) vs Billy Jean King (shemale). Okay, sorry, that was kinda’ rude. It’s none of my business which way she swung the racket.

          The big buildup to that match happened while I was stateside, but I was down in a tropical Mexican beach town without electricity, downing Tequila, surfing and chasing lovely senoritas around when the whole shebang finally took place.

          I remember like it was yesterday trying in vain to catch at least some kind of Mexican language play-by-play of the match on some Canadian turista’s battery-powered transistor radio.

          I was but an overgrown teenager at the time but I had already developed enough gay-dar to know that Billy Jean didn’t exactly find men – shall we say – sexually attractive?

          For the record I thought Bobby Riggs was kind of a false-macho jerk as well.

          Battle of the Sexes

          And to comment on Harley’s Obama speech link down the page. I don’t think it’s possible for any one human being to be more diametrically opposed to my beliefs than him, and unfortunately he’s my president.

          I sooo hope that Republicans hold the House and capture the Senate in November, thereby rendering him utterly and completely impotent.

        • beobrigitte says:

          “If I do the same job as you, I expect to be paid the same as you.”

          Even if you are twice as good at the job as am I ??

          Wages are set and an employee’s performance is rarely rewarded. With that, YES. However, if you were my colleague and you would not pull your weight, you would definitely know about it – from me!!!

        • beobrigitte says:

          Smokervoter, thanks!!!! I have no recollection of all this – I lived in Germany and was a busy teenager at the time.

          In this documentary Billy Jean was shown ‘happily married’ and her aspirations were portrait as purely addressing the wage difference at tennis competitions.

          I do admit, when watching, I would have loved to punch Bobby Riggs as a first reaction. But then, I did remember that I know nothing about all this.

        • beobrigitte says:

          On 23 August 1985, at age 67, Riggs returned to the tennis spotlight when he partnered with Vitas Gerulaitis, at the time a top-20 player, to launch another challenge to female players. He challenged Martina Navratilova and Pam Shriver to a doubles match.

          What was the point of all this?

          And…. whilst being busy fighting each other no-one pays attention to the REAL enemy.

  11. harleyrider1978 says:

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jun/25/obama-opposition-climate-akin-smoking-denialism/

    Obama: Opposition on climate akin to smoking denialism

    As he bashed conservatives and the tea party, President Obama said Wednesday night that denial of man-made climate change is tantamount to not believing cigarettes cause cancer.

    In a speech to the powerful environmental group, the League of Conservation Voters, the president continued his public battle with the tea party over his ambitious global-warming agenda, saying the “fringe elements” within the Republican Party continue to deny science and slow efforts to save the planet.

    “Folks will tell you climate change is a hoax, or a fad, or a plot, it’s a liberal plot,” he said. “Many who say that actually know better and they’re just embarrassed. They duck the question. They say ‘I’m not a scientist,” which really translates to, ‘I accept man-made climate change is real, but if I say so out loud I’ll be run out of town by a bunch of fringe elements … I’ll just pretend I don’t know, that I can’t read.’”

    The president then said Republicans — or any other critics of his controversial actions to address climate change — don’t need to be scientists or even understand much about carbon pollution to grasp the environmental threats facing the world.

    “I’m not a doctor either, but if a bunch of doctors tell me tobacco can cause lung cancer, then I’ll say, ‘OK.’ It’s not that hard,” he said.

    Mr. Obama’s speech to the influential organization came the same day White House officials met with billionaire climate activist and major Democratic party donor Tom Steyer. Mr. Steyer, along with former Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg and others, put forward a new report this week detailing the purported economic dangers that will result from climate change.

    The report mirrors a recent White House study on the same subject, which Mr. Obama has used to explain and justify his dramatic actions.

    Most notably, the president’s Environmental Protection Agency has proposed harsh limits on carbon emissions from power plants, expected to deal a serious blow to the domestic coal industry.

    While coal still provides nearly 40 percent of U.S. electricity and transformed the country during the Industrial Revolution, Mr. Obama urged developing countries such as China — far and away the world’s biggest carbon polluter — to avoid the relatively cheap, readily available fuel.

    He said China, India and other countries “should leapfrog some of the technologies, learn lessons from us, and go right to a clean energy future.”

    “We should lead by example,” Mr. Obama said. “They’re waiting to see what America does.”

    • garyk30 says:

      “denial of man-made climate change is tantamount to not believing cigarettes cause cancer.”

      Again, from Doll’s doctor study summary.

      Under the grouping of ‘Other Cancers’, which are 74% of the cancer deaths’. Lung and mouth/throat are only 24%.

      17% of never-smoker deaths were from those cancers.

      13% of smokers deaths were from those cancers.

      Smokers were less apt to die from such things as rectal, colon, or brain cancer.

      You can get a lung transplant; but, they do not transplant ass-holes or brains as of yet.

      • garyk30 says:

        17% vs 13% = a RR of 1.30

        That is higher than the RR of 1.19 that the EPA used to justify their claim that SHS causes lung cancer in never-smokers.

        • harleyrider1978 says:

          Gary great comments I want to say.

          But of you read into what the Great One is saying. He is down to having to use smoking and the belief of the people that it causes disease to shore up climate change when all he did was put anti-smoking propaganda on the fire right along with climate change!

          I simply challenged them to provide the proof! As we all know there is none! Once that becomes front page news its all over!

        • beobrigitte says:

          I simply challenged them to provide the proof!

          This is the key!

      • nisakiman says:

        Oh, I dunno, Gary. Take Mike Daube, for instance, shifting from one country to another. If that’s not an arsehole transplant, I don’t know what is….

        And Simon Chapman has most certainly had his brain transplanted. We (and he) just don’t know where to, yet. Maybe it’s just sitting in a jar of formaldehyde somewhere, waiting for MJM to dissect it. If he’s lucky, he might just get another one, one day. On condition that he doesn’t abuse it like the last one.

  12. garyk30 says:

    Just when you thought the media could get no worse.

    But then, he was one of those evil smokers.

    The late BBC entertainer Jimmy Savile sexually assaulted victims ages 5 to 75 in hospitals across Britain over more than four decades, investigators say.

    There were also reports Savile claimed to have performed sex acts on the dead. Dr. Sue Proctor, who led one of the investigations, said although the allegations could not be verified,

    • beobrigitte says:

      I really, really. really wish that the BBC would stop with these “news”. It was the BBC and charities that benefitted by EMPLOYING the man.
      It is a pity that Saville is dead – he has no chance of defending himself.

    • Frank Davis says:

      I ignore everything I read about Jimmy Savile. It’s a media witch hunt that only started when he was safely dead, and couldn’t answer back.

  13. beobrigitte says:

    I did spend some time yesterday thinking about Nightlight’s reply:

    …smokers believe ‘smoking kills’(hence it is sin). Just as there are no muggers organizing to defend their rights to mug, there won’t be smokers organizing to defend their habit, while being under the ‘smoking kills’ spell.

    Smokers don’t really believe that ‘smoking kills’; they see enough old people smoking. But smokers have UNQUESTIONABLY ACCEPTED that smoking HARMS. Some 70-odd year olds I have encountered are even banking on that! The prospect ending up in one of these ‘God’s waiting rooms’ is more scary than ‘smoking kills’.
    Although no smoker I have encountered accepts the ‘passive smoke damage’, they make sure that they smoke outside their homes – just in case…….

    However, I have also encountered smokers ready for a fight! Pregnant ones!!! Waiting for the little old lady who was attending an outpatient clinic a heavily pregnant women joined me on the bench and lit up. I smiled and asked when she was due. The woman looked at me, ready for a fight! Only when I told her that I had smoked through all my pregnancies and that we even had a smoking room on the ward , she relaxed.
    In any case, she wasn’t due for another 6 weeks; she was in for investigation of gestational diabetes because of her baby’s rapid growth rate….

    I think the answer is that most people (or at least a great many people) now discount their own experience and their own judgment, and instead place their trust in ‘experts’ or ‘authorities’, and in particular in medical and scientific authorities. They have lost their self-confidence and their self-belief.

    We had a long spell of a labour government. Authority knows best. Authority keeps you ‘safe’.

    From believing everything they’re told, people will swing to disbelieving everything.
    “Wer einmal luegt dem glaubt man nicht
    wenn er auch die Wahrheit spricht”

    An old German proverb. “A liar will not be believed even when he speaks the truth ”

    And if politicians/lobby groups lie about one thing, chances are high they lie about other things, too!

    For the ‘sceptics’, whether it’s scepticism about antismoking or global warming alarmism, or European integration, are the new disbelievers (or ‘deniers’ or ‘denialists’, as their opponents). They don’t believe what they’re told.

    For me the cause of questioning was the windfarms. Killing rare birds. Neodymum. Windfarms noise. Windfarmenergy cannot be stored. (?)
    Nicely summarized here
    http://instituteforenergyresearch.org/analysis/big-winds-dirty-little-secret-rare-earth-minerals/

    I am a nature lover and wish for the animals that end up on my plates to have had a REAL live. We all love beef – so let them eat grass and FART.
    I then came across some “Green” expert pointing out that cows farting releases METHANE which contributes to GLOBAL WARMING….

    Skepticism isn’t something you can teach people. It comes on it’s own in people – when the liars feel they have conned their way into politics and therefore can produce the most outlandish claims supporting THEIR ideology.

    I never set out to be a sceptic – I just like to make sense of what is around me. Right now I see no sense in the continuous fearmongers’ control we all experience.

    • harleyrider1978 says:

      From believing everything they’re told, people will swing to disbelieving everything.

      What a great saying!

  14. harleyrider1978 says:

    German pensioner evicted from home of 40 years for smoking

    Friedhelm Adolfs, a German pensioner evicted for smoking after neighbours filed complaints, has become the focus of intense national debate

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/10927998/German-pensioner-evicted-from-home-of-40-years-for-smoking.html

    • beobrigitte says:

      Oh….. NOOOOOOO!!!

      Bastards – Anti-smoking BASTARDS!!!

      His neighbours’ right to live free from smoke outweighed Mr Adolfs’ right to smoke inside his own home, the court ruled.

      • harleyrider1978 says:

        Beo its a good thing he got evicted look at the public outcry its produced all over Germany!

        The guys been a victim now of it all……………Its what turns the world back to thinking str8 again!

      • beobrigitte says:

        AND: LIE
        While smoking bans are in force in all of Germany’s states,

        I can ASSURE you THIS is a LIE; In my Bundesland there ARE PUBS I can smoke INSIDE.

        • beobrigitte says:

          Small privately run bars that don’t serve food are exempt from the ban in many states, and larger establishments can set aside a room for smokers.

          Smokers are not kicked out!

        • Reinhold says:

          In my Bundesland there ARE PUBS I can smoke INSIDE
          Yet, Brigitte. Yet.
          That may change soon.
          Remember which party your present Ministerpräsident belongs to.

        • beobrigitte says:

          Reinhold, I know.

          What annoyed me was this:
          While smoking bans are in force in all of Germany’s states,

          This IS a brazen LIE!

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