Smoking and Live Music

One of the many casualties of the smoking ban has been the live music scene. This is something about which I have little personal experience. So when I got chatting online with Rick S a few days back, and it became clear that he knew much more about it than I did, I was quick to ask him if he’d like to write a guest piece about it. And he readily agreed. So I’d like to thank him for this guest contribution:

Smoking and Live Music

I suppose I should have known, really. After all, Victoria Saunters, landlady of the Plough Inn in East Sussex, was interviewed on the Richard and Judy Show shortly after the smoking ban came in and said: “We had a band last Friday playing to a more or less empty pub because everyone was standing outside in the pouring rain under an umbrella”.

On a straightforward personal level, I loathe the ban and effect it’s had on me. Going to the pub simply isn’t the pleasure it used to be apart from that brief spell in summer when it’s possible to sit outside with a pint and a cigarette and pretend that things haven’t changed. What took some time to realise, though, was that the baleful effects of the ban would also affect me materially and financially.

To explain: I’m a rock/pop/blues musician – not a great one (or perhaps I’d be in a different situation altogether) but an experienced and reliable guitarist and bass player who had a brief professional spell many years ago and who has made a fair bit of pocket money from playing pub gigs since then. If any band needs someone to stand in for an absent musician, I’m your man. I learn songs quickly, I’m conscientious and I make very few mistakes (all musicians hit the occasional bum note!).

I was made redundant from my reasonably well paid day job some months ago (I blame the smoking ban at least partly for that too, but it’s a long story) and have been struggling, in the current climate, to get another one – but I did think that I could at least play as many gigs as possible to bring in enough cash to tide me over in the meantime. Unfortunately this has proved to be impossible.

We all know how many pubs have closed since the ban came in, and we also know how empty the remaining ones tend to be. The knock-on effect of that, of course, is that virtually no pub can afford to pay for live music these days (particularly when there’s no guarantee that anybody is going to be there to witness it) and a once-reliable source of gigs and money has virtually dried up. The only money to be made by semi-pro musicians these days comes from either forming a “tribute band” or else playing at private functions. The first one of those presupposes that you can think of a band that you like so much that you’re happy to play nothing but their material, and that nobody else has thought of covering yet, while the second depends almost entirely on personal contacts (and of course you can’t get your friends along to support you). Yes, there is still some music being played in pubs, but it’s generally in the context of an unpaid “open mic” or jam night where various musicians waiting for the chance to strut their stuff create the illusion of an audience, but where virtually nobody else is present.

The situation for live music in pubs, and therefore for musicians like me, is currently dismal, and the smoking ban has played a huge part in bringing it about. Quite apart from the economic aspects, it has destroyed the bohemian, relaxed atmosphere that used to exist in a music pub, where you could watch a band while enjoying a few beers and fags. The present-day sterile pub doesn’t go with rock, blues, jazz or any other type of music associated with smoky bars and clubs. These things are purely about enjoyment and not about “healthy living” or doing what the State tells you (which is why the totalitarian governments of the twentieth century hated jazz and blues so much). Art, even the lowly form with which I’m involved, has nothing to do with being a healthy and productive citizen – it is quite useless, as Oscar Wilde said. But that’s precisely why we love it.

Or, to put it another way: would the British blues boom of the Sixties have happened if the Crawdaddy had been a “smokefree” combination of eatery and creche? Can live music possibly thrive in the current environment? At the moment, you’d have to say: not a chance in hell.

Rick S

About Frank Davis

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30 Responses to Smoking and Live Music

  1. Anonymous says:

    I wonder if Smoky-Drinky might have a place for a live band. Only at the bigger houses, I suppose. There won’t be any official payment other than donations because otherwise it becomes a place of business.
    Smoking is relaxation, as is listening to music, as is having a few drinks. For many, all three intermingle and cannot be separated.
    The current Coagulation, just like the Brown Gorgon and the Tiny Blur before him, want to destroy all of that. It’s not going to work.
    All they will destroy is their tax take from it.

  2. Anonymous says:

    I wonder if Smoky-Drinky might have a place for a live band. Only at the bigger houses, I suppose. There won’t be any official payment other than donations because otherwise it becomes a place of business.
    Smoking is relaxation, as is listening to music, as is having a few drinks. For many, all three intermingle and cannot be separated.
    The current Coagulation, just like the Brown Gorgon and the Tiny Blur before him, want to destroy all of that. It’s not going to work.
    All they will destroy is their tax take from it.

  3. leg_iron says:

    Bugger. I thought I was logged in that time.

  4. leg_iron says:

    Bugger. I thought I was logged in that time.

  5. Frank Davis says:

    Does it really matter whether you were logged in or not? Isn’t it just the thought that counts?
    And I think that’s a really great idea, even though I don’t know anybody who runs a smoky-drinky place. Why not have a few musicians show up and play their thing?
    What was once open to the public will simply become private. What was once open to everybody will only be open to the few.
    But that’s socialism, isn’t it?
    Frank

  6. Frank Davis says:

    Does it really matter whether you were logged in or not? Isn’t it just the thought that counts?
    And I think that’s a really great idea, even though I don’t know anybody who runs a smoky-drinky place. Why not have a few musicians show up and play their thing?
    What was once open to the public will simply become private. What was once open to everybody will only be open to the few.
    But that’s socialism, isn’t it?
    Frank

  7. Anonymous says:

    “Or, to put it another way: would the British blues boom of the Sixties have happened if the Crawdaddy had been a “smokefree” combination of eatery and creche”
    I’d go a step further than this and say that, almost without exception, all of the groundbreaking creative works which have been produced – writing, art, music, even non-Arty fields such as engineering or industry – have emanated from people who used tobacco. If you break creativity down into its constituent parts, it’s imagination/visualisation plus the application of logic to put it into a meaningful form which can be transmitted very effectively to others. Heighten both of these and you heighten a person’s ability to produce truly original creative work. Nicotine enhances the imagination, but it also sharpens the mental faculties – which is why all those people whose works have lasted for decades, even centuries, to become known as “classics” were, pretty much without exception, tobacco users.
    Don’t get me wrong – I’m not saying that if the talent isn’t there in the first place it will magically appear at the first whiff of nicotine and turn Fred Bloggs into Oscar Wilde or Salvador Dali or David Bowie, but if it’s there and a person doesn’t tickle it into action with the help of a bit of nicotine then at best it’ll take longer or be more difficult to express; at worst it’ll remain dormant and never see the light of day. Maybe there are other substances which have a similar effect, which might be why there was such an explosion of sudden and dynamic creativity in the 60s and 70s, but I don’t think any other drug is quite so effective in stimulating both areas of the brain which are so necessary for exceptional creativity to be expressed fully. I think it’s one of the reasons why there is so little genuine creativity around these days, and what there is just isn’t expressed well enough to “sweep the board” in the way that it used to.
    And I don’t think that it’s any coincidence that the decline in truly original creativity in all fields happens to have exactly mirrored the decline in tobacco usage.
    “Art, even the lowly form with which I’m involved, has nothing to do with being a healthy and productive citizen – it is quite useless”
    That may be true of “pure” artistic endeavour, although I’m not sure that this doesn’t also has a very useful human function – just not perhaps a particularly practical one. But “creativity” is, I think, one of our most valuable resources and one which has enabled us to live the comfortable, sophisticated lives we now do. Where would be be now, for example, without the “creativity” of cigar-smoking Isambard Kingdom Brunel?

  8. Anonymous says:

    “Or, to put it another way: would the British blues boom of the Sixties have happened if the Crawdaddy had been a “smokefree” combination of eatery and creche”
    I’d go a step further than this and say that, almost without exception, all of the groundbreaking creative works which have been produced – writing, art, music, even non-Arty fields such as engineering or industry – have emanated from people who used tobacco. If you break creativity down into its constituent parts, it’s imagination/visualisation plus the application of logic to put it into a meaningful form which can be transmitted very effectively to others. Heighten both of these and you heighten a person’s ability to produce truly original creative work. Nicotine enhances the imagination, but it also sharpens the mental faculties – which is why all those people whose works have lasted for decades, even centuries, to become known as “classics” were, pretty much without exception, tobacco users.
    Don’t get me wrong – I’m not saying that if the talent isn’t there in the first place it will magically appear at the first whiff of nicotine and turn Fred Bloggs into Oscar Wilde or Salvador Dali or David Bowie, but if it’s there and a person doesn’t tickle it into action with the help of a bit of nicotine then at best it’ll take longer or be more difficult to express; at worst it’ll remain dormant and never see the light of day. Maybe there are other substances which have a similar effect, which might be why there was such an explosion of sudden and dynamic creativity in the 60s and 70s, but I don’t think any other drug is quite so effective in stimulating both areas of the brain which are so necessary for exceptional creativity to be expressed fully. I think it’s one of the reasons why there is so little genuine creativity around these days, and what there is just isn’t expressed well enough to “sweep the board” in the way that it used to.
    And I don’t think that it’s any coincidence that the decline in truly original creativity in all fields happens to have exactly mirrored the decline in tobacco usage.
    “Art, even the lowly form with which I’m involved, has nothing to do with being a healthy and productive citizen – it is quite useless”
    That may be true of “pure” artistic endeavour, although I’m not sure that this doesn’t also has a very useful human function – just not perhaps a particularly practical one. But “creativity” is, I think, one of our most valuable resources and one which has enabled us to live the comfortable, sophisticated lives we now do. Where would be be now, for example, without the “creativity” of cigar-smoking Isambard Kingdom Brunel?

  9. Anonymous says:

    I’m planning to do something like that soon. The regulars at my local are mainly smokers, and include a guitarist and a keyboard player. I’ve got enough space at home (at least while I can keep up the mortgage payments) for us to be able to have a drink, a smoke and a jam.
    It also reminds me of a memorable evening at the local pub some weeks ago, when a spontaneous party broke out. There was a large group of teachers of varying ages celebrating the end of term, a group of regulars including the guitarist, who was knocking out a series of sixties hits to general approval, and there were various other people dotted around in larger or smaller groups. As time went on and the drinks flowed, everybody started singing, dancing and talking to complete strangers. Songs were requested, and various people (including me) took a turn on the guitar if they knew a particular number. People were wandering about and smoking all over the place, and none of the non-smokers were remotely bothered by it.
    Needless to say, this all took place in the beer garden. The inside of the pub had about three people in it. As I said in the article (and many thanks for posting it on your blog), there’s just a short season in this country during which we can still enjoy ourselves in a “public place” – and of course the Righteous killjoys have got their eyes on spoiling that as well.
    Rick S

  10. Anonymous says:

    I’m planning to do something like that soon. The regulars at my local are mainly smokers, and include a guitarist and a keyboard player. I’ve got enough space at home (at least while I can keep up the mortgage payments) for us to be able to have a drink, a smoke and a jam.
    It also reminds me of a memorable evening at the local pub some weeks ago, when a spontaneous party broke out. There was a large group of teachers of varying ages celebrating the end of term, a group of regulars including the guitarist, who was knocking out a series of sixties hits to general approval, and there were various other people dotted around in larger or smaller groups. As time went on and the drinks flowed, everybody started singing, dancing and talking to complete strangers. Songs were requested, and various people (including me) took a turn on the guitar if they knew a particular number. People were wandering about and smoking all over the place, and none of the non-smokers were remotely bothered by it.
    Needless to say, this all took place in the beer garden. The inside of the pub had about three people in it. As I said in the article (and many thanks for posting it on your blog), there’s just a short season in this country during which we can still enjoy ourselves in a “public place” – and of course the Righteous killjoys have got their eyes on spoiling that as well.
    Rick S

  11. Anonymous says:

    Nicotine is just a precursor.
    “Niacin was first discovered from the oxidation of nicotine to form nicotinic acid. When the properties of nicotinic acid were discovered, it was thought prudent to choose a name to dissociate it from nicotine, in order to avoid the perception that vitamins or niacin-rich food contains nicotine. The resulting name ‘niacin’ was derived from nicotinic acid + vitamin.”
    “Niacin is also referred to as Vitamin B3 because it was the third of the B vitamins to be discovered. It has historically been referred to as “vitamin PP”, a name derived from the term “pellagra-preventing factor”.
    http://www.chemie.de/lexikon/e/Niacin
    Nicotinic acid
    “In other words, we analyzed the saliva, which would have otherwise been swallowed. No nicotinic Acid occurred in the smoker’s saliva before smoking. We feel that we have made this report sufficiently long to cover the discoveries, which we regard as quite remarkable.
    http://tobaccodocuments.org/product_design/04365489-5491.html
    niacin
    “pellagra-preventing vitamin in enriched bread,” 1942, coined from ni(cotinic) ac(id) + -in, chemical suffix; suggested by the American Medical Association as a more commercially viable name than nicotinic acid.
    “The new name was found to be necessary because some anti-tobacco groups warned against enriched bread because it would foster the cigarette habit.” [“Cooperative Consumer,” Feb. 28, 1942]
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/niacin
    NIACIN AND NIACINAMIDE IN FLUE-CURED CIGARETTE SMOKE CONDENSATE
    http://legacy.library.ucsf.edu/action/document/page?tid=pnx69d00&page=1
    Carbon Monoxide Gas Is Used by Brain Cells As a Neurotransmitter
    “THE simple gas carbon monoxide is used by nerve cells to signal each other, researchers have found in a discovery that could open the way to a new understanding of how the brain operates.
    The discovery follows a finding that another simple gas, nitric oxide, can also signal nerve cells. Together the two gases break all the old rules on how neurotransmitters work”
    And, he says, the new findings about carbon monoxide and nitric oxide have taught neurobiologists an important lesson: “It makes you think that when people are evaluating whether a given chemical is a candidate neurotransmitter, they ought to be very careful about applying the rules of ancient days.”
    http://www.nytimes.com/1993/01/26/science/carbon-monoxide-gas-is-used-by-brain-cells-as-a-neurotransmitter.html
    Everything seems to work together.
    Rose

  12. Anonymous says:

    Nicotine is just a precursor.
    “Niacin was first discovered from the oxidation of nicotine to form nicotinic acid. When the properties of nicotinic acid were discovered, it was thought prudent to choose a name to dissociate it from nicotine, in order to avoid the perception that vitamins or niacin-rich food contains nicotine. The resulting name ‘niacin’ was derived from nicotinic acid + vitamin.”
    “Niacin is also referred to as Vitamin B3 because it was the third of the B vitamins to be discovered. It has historically been referred to as “vitamin PP”, a name derived from the term “pellagra-preventing factor”.
    http://www.chemie.de/lexikon/e/Niacin
    Nicotinic acid
    “In other words, we analyzed the saliva, which would have otherwise been swallowed. No nicotinic Acid occurred in the smoker’s saliva before smoking. We feel that we have made this report sufficiently long to cover the discoveries, which we regard as quite remarkable.
    http://tobaccodocuments.org/product_design/04365489-5491.html
    niacin
    “pellagra-preventing vitamin in enriched bread,” 1942, coined from ni(cotinic) ac(id) + -in, chemical suffix; suggested by the American Medical Association as a more commercially viable name than nicotinic acid.
    “The new name was found to be necessary because some anti-tobacco groups warned against enriched bread because it would foster the cigarette habit.” [“Cooperative Consumer,” Feb. 28, 1942]
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/niacin
    NIACIN AND NIACINAMIDE IN FLUE-CURED CIGARETTE SMOKE CONDENSATE
    http://legacy.library.ucsf.edu/action/document/page?tid=pnx69d00&page=1
    Carbon Monoxide Gas Is Used by Brain Cells As a Neurotransmitter
    “THE simple gas carbon monoxide is used by nerve cells to signal each other, researchers have found in a discovery that could open the way to a new understanding of how the brain operates.
    The discovery follows a finding that another simple gas, nitric oxide, can also signal nerve cells. Together the two gases break all the old rules on how neurotransmitters work”
    And, he says, the new findings about carbon monoxide and nitric oxide have taught neurobiologists an important lesson: “It makes you think that when people are evaluating whether a given chemical is a candidate neurotransmitter, they ought to be very careful about applying the rules of ancient days.”
    http://www.nytimes.com/1993/01/26/science/carbon-monoxide-gas-is-used-by-brain-cells-as-a-neurotransmitter.html
    Everything seems to work together.
    Rose

  13. Frank Davis says:

    I agree. I think that a lot of people work better with tobacco. I think the result of smoking bans everywhere simply has to be that people aren’t working as well as they could. It’s not just creativity. It’s everything.
    The antis themselves show little in the way of creativity or sensitivity. Their dogmatism is evident everywhere. And it’s a sort of stupidity. And they tell stupid lies. And maybe it’s because they don’t smoke?
    We seem to need these little fire sticks to get our brains to work better. As Rose is regularly suggesting (see below).
    Frank

  14. Frank Davis says:

    I agree. I think that a lot of people work better with tobacco. I think the result of smoking bans everywhere simply has to be that people aren’t working as well as they could. It’s not just creativity. It’s everything.
    The antis themselves show little in the way of creativity or sensitivity. Their dogmatism is evident everywhere. And it’s a sort of stupidity. And they tell stupid lies. And maybe it’s because they don’t smoke?
    We seem to need these little fire sticks to get our brains to work better. As Rose is regularly suggesting (see below).
    Frank

  15. Anonymous says:

    What seems to have happened is that a Dr Goldberger went searching for the cure for pellagra, but his cure was not met with delight.
    Goldberger and the “Pellagra Germ”
    “Critics, many unable to part from the germ theory of pellagra, raised doubts. Goldberger hoped to squelch those reservations by demonstrating the existence of a particular substance that when removed from the diet of healthy individuals resulted in pellagra.”
    In the pages of the Journal of the American Medical Association, critic W.J. MacNeal challenged the results. One Birmingham physician referred to the experiment as “half-baked.”
    Still others thought the whole experiment a fraud.”
    http://history.nih.gov/exhibits/goldberger/docs/pellegra_5.htm
    The reason seems to be that the Eugenicists had been quietly disposing of the pellagrins because they thought it was a hereditary disease.
    A STUDY OF THE HEREDITY OF PELLAGRA IN SPARTANBURG COUNTY, SOUTH CAROLINA
    Vol. XVIII No. 1, JULY 1916
    http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/summary/XVIII/1/32
    When the cure was discovered things got even worse.
    Conrad A. Elvehjem, (May 27, 1901–July 27, 1962), was internationally known as a biochemist in nutrition. In 1937 he identified a molecule found in fresh meat and yeast as a new vitamin, nicotinic acid, now called niacin.[1] His discovery led directly to the cure of human pellagra, once a major health problem in the United States.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conrad_Elvehjem
    Because it had been previously discovered and was already named.
    Organic Chemistry
    1867, Huber provides the first description of nicotinic acid. 1873, Weidel describes the elemental analysis and crystalline structure of the salts etc.
    These methods described by R Laiblin in 1879
    http://www.rsc.org/delivery/_ArticleLinking/DisplayArticleForFree.cfm?doi=CA8793600775&JournalCode=CA
    Which clashed badly with the anti-tobacco campaign.
    So the nicotinic acid was put in the bread to prevent pellagra and the name changed.
    Because a coal tar derivative was much cheaper, tobacco couldn’t compete.
    So its quite true when they say its not the same thing at all.
    Sorry Frank, I will keep quiet now.
    Rose

  16. Anonymous says:

    What seems to have happened is that a Dr Goldberger went searching for the cure for pellagra, but his cure was not met with delight.
    Goldberger and the “Pellagra Germ”
    “Critics, many unable to part from the germ theory of pellagra, raised doubts. Goldberger hoped to squelch those reservations by demonstrating the existence of a particular substance that when removed from the diet of healthy individuals resulted in pellagra.”
    In the pages of the Journal of the American Medical Association, critic W.J. MacNeal challenged the results. One Birmingham physician referred to the experiment as “half-baked.”
    Still others thought the whole experiment a fraud.”
    http://history.nih.gov/exhibits/goldberger/docs/pellegra_5.htm
    The reason seems to be that the Eugenicists had been quietly disposing of the pellagrins because they thought it was a hereditary disease.
    A STUDY OF THE HEREDITY OF PELLAGRA IN SPARTANBURG COUNTY, SOUTH CAROLINA
    Vol. XVIII No. 1, JULY 1916
    http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/summary/XVIII/1/32
    When the cure was discovered things got even worse.
    Conrad A. Elvehjem, (May 27, 1901–July 27, 1962), was internationally known as a biochemist in nutrition. In 1937 he identified a molecule found in fresh meat and yeast as a new vitamin, nicotinic acid, now called niacin.[1] His discovery led directly to the cure of human pellagra, once a major health problem in the United States.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conrad_Elvehjem
    Because it had been previously discovered and was already named.
    Organic Chemistry
    1867, Huber provides the first description of nicotinic acid. 1873, Weidel describes the elemental analysis and crystalline structure of the salts etc.
    These methods described by R Laiblin in 1879
    http://www.rsc.org/delivery/_ArticleLinking/DisplayArticleForFree.cfm?doi=CA8793600775&JournalCode=CA
    Which clashed badly with the anti-tobacco campaign.
    So the nicotinic acid was put in the bread to prevent pellagra and the name changed.
    Because a coal tar derivative was much cheaper, tobacco couldn’t compete.
    So its quite true when they say its not the same thing at all.
    Sorry Frank, I will keep quiet now.
    Rose

  17. Frank Davis says:

    Oh, don’t worry about me!
    You keep digging up all these amazing little facts. They’re like bits of a jigsaw. Do you ever try to put the bits together?
    Frank

  18. Frank Davis says:

    Oh, don’t worry about me!
    You keep digging up all these amazing little facts. They’re like bits of a jigsaw. Do you ever try to put the bits together?
    Frank

  19. Anonymous says:

    Oh yes.
    When you see the same observation written down in different ways by different scientists, in different circumstances and on different subjects,over a hundred years of history, you begin to form an opinion.
    However, there has been quite enough of that, and the more minds on this the better.
    It is a lot like a jigsaw, but with so many people doing their own research its usually more like a game of snap.
    Thank you very much for Sir Ronald Fisher.
    Rose

  20. Anonymous says:

    Oh yes.
    When you see the same observation written down in different ways by different scientists, in different circumstances and on different subjects,over a hundred years of history, you begin to form an opinion.
    However, there has been quite enough of that, and the more minds on this the better.
    It is a lot like a jigsaw, but with so many people doing their own research its usually more like a game of snap.
    Thank you very much for Sir Ronald Fisher.
    Rose

  21. timbone59 says:

    My second home is Benidorm. As a musician, I have been invited several times to get over there good and proper, which is still in the pipeline. Having said that, my plans have changed. I no longer plan to go there as a musician. Although the health fanatics in the Spanish parliament have not been successful yet, a new date has been set for a ban in all bars and clubs, 1st January 2011.
    Whether this will happen or not I don’t know, they have already had two failed attempts. If it does go through, will the bars and clubs in places like Benidorm adher to it? How long would it last before an ammendment like many other European Countries?
    What I do know is this. Benidorm is known as the entertainment capital of Europe, loads and loads of singers, tribute bands, comedians, and other things besides. If there was a strict anti smoking law for the bars and clubs, it will die a horrible death.

  22. timbone59 says:

    My second home is Benidorm. As a musician, I have been invited several times to get over there good and proper, which is still in the pipeline. Having said that, my plans have changed. I no longer plan to go there as a musician. Although the health fanatics in the Spanish parliament have not been successful yet, a new date has been set for a ban in all bars and clubs, 1st January 2011.
    Whether this will happen or not I don’t know, they have already had two failed attempts. If it does go through, will the bars and clubs in places like Benidorm adher to it? How long would it last before an ammendment like many other European Countries?
    What I do know is this. Benidorm is known as the entertainment capital of Europe, loads and loads of singers, tribute bands, comedians, and other things besides. If there was a strict anti smoking law for the bars and clubs, it will die a horrible death.

  23. Frank Davis says:

    Oh yes.
    Do you think you might be able to collect those pieces together in an essay?
    Frank

  24. Frank Davis says:

    Oh yes.
    Do you think you might be able to collect those pieces together in an essay?
    Frank

  25. Frank Davis says:

    a new date has been set for a ban in all bars and clubs, 1st January 2011.
    In Barcelona last November, I was led to believe that the total ban was going to start on 1 Jan 2010. But it didn’t because there weren’t the votes in the Spanish parliament for it. Are there any more votes now?
    Frank

  26. Frank Davis says:

    a new date has been set for a ban in all bars and clubs, 1st January 2011.
    In Barcelona last November, I was led to believe that the total ban was going to start on 1 Jan 2010. But it didn’t because there weren’t the votes in the Spanish parliament for it. Are there any more votes now?
    Frank

  27. timbone59 says:

    No Frank, that is why they can’t get it through, but they keep trying. They say it is going to happen, (22nd June was the last one). Maybe they are trying Arnott’s ‘confidence trick’ approach, but it hasn’t worked yet.

  28. timbone59 says:

    No Frank, that is why they can’t get it through, but they keep trying. They say it is going to happen, (22nd June was the last one). Maybe they are trying Arnott’s ‘confidence trick’ approach, but it hasn’t worked yet.

  29. Anonymous says:

    It would be more of a small book.
    But as I am virtually incoherent after 8 years of writing solely in abbreviations followed by twenty years of only writing shopping lists and excuse notes to school, it would be very tedious to read.
    More than that, after 60 years of propaganda, I would prefer people to look at what I have found, check it thoroughly and then make up their own minds as to where it might be useful to them.
    Rose

  30. Anonymous says:

    It would be more of a small book.
    But as I am virtually incoherent after 8 years of writing solely in abbreviations followed by twenty years of only writing shopping lists and excuse notes to school, it would be very tedious to read.
    More than that, after 60 years of propaganda, I would prefer people to look at what I have found, check it thoroughly and then make up their own minds as to where it might be useful to them.
    Rose

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