H/T Rose for David Hockney’s Guardian piece:
There are about 10 million adult smokers in the UK. None are professional. There are far too many professional anti-smokers whose aim is to get rid of smoking altogether. They will fail…
The figures for smoking have been the same for about four or five years now. This means that you have a hardcore of smokers – naughty people who should know better – who accept the fact that fate plays a part in life and know that to be obsessed with longevity is life-denying. There is only now.
The antismokers were out in force, naturally, coughing and spluttering.
Reading their comments, which were mostly variations on one or two familiar themes, I could only think that I no longer want to know people who think that tobacco smoke ‘stinks’, or that it ‘kills’, or that I’m an ‘addict’ because I smoke it. I have nothing to say to them. The gulf between us has become unbridgeable.
And at the same time, I couldn’t help but think that many such people used once to be friends of mine. There are probably any number of people that I’ve known and respected down the years who have now turned into antismokers. And now there is an unbridgeable gulf dividing us, where there was never one before.
They look on me in contempt and pity. And I look on them with the same contempt and pity.
And this seems to be the real disaster of the smoking ban. For we now have a divided society. And I see no prospect whatsoever of that division healing.
And it’s a division that has been created by antismoking zealots – many of them doctors -.
But apart from the antis, there were plenty of smokers commenting.
Mangostein 15 March 2013 9:56pm
I agree with David Hockney.
I cannot see the blanket smoking ban remaining in place indefinitely.
It’s only a matter of time until smoking licences for pubs are introduced.
I think this is true. Smokers have dug in their heels, and carried on smoking. In the end, the government will have to concede that this attempt at social engineering has failed, and it didn’t get smokers to quit smoking, and so reluctantly allowances will be made for them.
And then we’ll see just how divided society has become, as antismokers refuse to step inside ‘lethal’ smoking pubs, and smokers refuse to step inside non-smoking ones.
It’s a social division that most antismokers seem unable to contemplate. Yet it’s something that they themselves have created. They will have only themselves to blame.
Dave Copeland 15 March 2013 9:29pm
@rhysbala – One day, in the future, ‘passive smoking’ will be known as the greatest hoax of the 21st century. It’s a shame that the gullible sheeple can’t be arsed to look at the studies for themselves, instead of believing the lies, propaganda and scaremongering which emenates daily from the anti-smoking media. Trust the scientists! http://tctactics.org/index.php/Critical_Scientists
I think it’s a hoax too. And a far greater hoax than global warming. It’s a hundred year old hoax.
RichardBondel 15 March 2013 7:10pm
This thread just makes me glad I’m a smoker. The pious drivel the anti-smokers come out with would make me embarrassed to be one of them. No other section of society has to put up with insults about the way they smell. It’s smokism!
I’m glad I’m a smoker too.
ErnestMillerm 15 March 2013 5:13pm
I’m always terribly impressed by the furore this little issue causes. Black and white mentalities don’t seem to work too well do they? Why on earth the whole blanket smoking ban didn’t err on the side of … I don’t know… common sense, and just stipulate the bleeding obvious. “This is a smoking bar” and “This is a non smoking bar”, kind of like they do where I live. Seems to work pretty well.
Well, exactly.
taxhaven 15 March 2013 4:44pm
A large part of the difficulty here is that we are saddled with government-monopoly medicine, in the NHS.
It’s a coercive insurance scheme, in which everyone is forced to bear part of the cost of others’ treatment and care. Thus, people engaging in ‘damaging’ behaviours forcibly become a financial burden to those innocents who DO take good care of themselves but are compeled to pay into the system.
Get rid of state medicine and make all insurance, if wanted, voluntary and private.
Then this question will become a moot point.
This is perceptive. Because it is a result of having the state-run NHS. And it’s also because of this that we have all these doctors and experts telling people how to live. That’s what comes with top-down control.
Although it may not explain smoking bans in the USA, where most people need private medical insurance anyway.
I used to like the NHS. It seemed very benign. But these days it no longer seems at all benign, particularly for smokers. Or drinkers. Or fat people. Or anyone else deemed to be ‘unfit’.
I’m beginning to realise that, when medicine was privatised, you were one of your doctor’s customers, just as if he had been a car mechanic or a barkeeper. And like them, he wanted to do the best for you, and keep you happy. Because he wanted your custom.
But once medicine was socialised, your doctor no longer relied on your custom. He no longer needed to keep you happy, or do his best for you. And so he gradually turned into a little tyrant, more interested in telling you how to live your life, than ameliorating your aches and pains. He could no longer be bothered with you.
And you could no longer be bothered with him.
Deeplyconcernced 15 March 2013 5:10pm
I love my bacon,my real full fat milk, my freshly churned full fat butter, full fat cheeses of all types. Real bread, peanut butter (not the cheap sugary ones), I love my daily red wine, my gin and tonic at coctail hour, and my nightcap of whisky. I also love my after dinner cigarette with real fresh coffee and chocolates. Nothing is low fat, or pretending to be.
I am thin as rake, I walk for miles with my dog. I dont do the sad threadmill exercises on my own.
I also dont want to live for the sake of the desperate need to reach the magic 100th year, I want a full life of enjoyment, happiness and to enjoy each day with all my vices and virtues intact. If I have a short life…I die happy with good food, and etc…You guys have no business to tell me otherwise.
But knowing my luck I will continue to enjoy all of the above and reach 100th year regardless.. newspapers of the future will ask me the same question asked of the past humnas to lived before up and beyond 100th year…”What is your secret of a long life?”
The answer is simple. Dont overeat, enjoy your life and have a tipple and sneaky smoke. be happy. Love yourself and your pets. Reject those humans that want to harm you and tell you what to eat, or not eat…bugger off and leave me alone.
That’s a nice one to sign off on.
Good post, Frank.
The really iniquitous thing about the smoking ban (in pubs, especially) was not that it forbad smoking. It was that it forced ordinary citizens who happened to be publicans to enforce the law. It has always surprised me that publicans did not rise up en masse and contest it as vigorously as possible. At least the small shopkeepers have fought the plain packaging nonsense.
I really enjoyed that last comment. Very down to earth and real. That’s what most people were like before this nasty Health n’ Safety Twist fad told hold.
There are stuffy intellectuals who devise these bass akwards Happiness Indexes who would no doubt rate this guy at the bottom while that solitary, sad guy on the treadmill listening to a Wellness Now lecture on his earplugs, his face contorted in pain, comes out at Number 1.
One fine day this Health n’ Safety Twist craze is going to come to an end quicker than you can say Chubby Checker.
That of course would be Health n’ Safety Twist fad took hold. Typos happen. Shit happens – No sniveling – JJ’s Cantina, Puerto Penasco, Mexico.
I liked the last comment in the article. The poster sounded really ‘at peace’ with themselves and contented.
The anti smoking brigade are the complete neurotic opposite and seem to me they are the ‘twittery’ neurotic type (for want of a better word)
Antis are very selfish, and here is something about that trait.
“Selfishness is not identical with self-love but with its very opposite … Close observation shows that the selfish person is always anxiously concerned with himself, he is never satisfied, is always restless, always driven by the fear of not getting enough, of missing something, of being deprived of something..
. If we observe still closer, especially the unconscious dynamics, we find that this type of person is basically not fond of himself, but deeply dislikes himself” – Erich Fromm, ‘Escape from Freedom’
I have followed this comments section since Rose put the link up – Thanks, Rose.
Surely, by now the rabid anti-smokers DO UNDERSTAND that this country did NOT get used to the smoking ban ‘in no time’.
They can post over and over again and again that they think we are smelly, sub-standard people who are responsible for EVERY CANCER ever diagnosed – it does not change the fact that there are not many people who actually LIKE them.
But I did notice that some of these rabid anti-smokers are close to succumbing to a coronary, especially once they really understand that their overused arguments are being laughed at.
We’ll be blamed for that, too.
In the meantime, the anti-smokers will ramble on and on at ANY party/parties forming the next government. It’ll be interesting to see what will happen if UKIP continues to gain more and more votes.
We’ve had labour, which turned out to be our weapon of mass destruction; we are having a tory/libdem coalition busy arguing much amongst themselves; the only thing they have in common is their gullibility and lack of common sense.
I might be wrong, but from what I gather, UKIP isn’t obsessed by “economic growth” to the point of collapse, it focuses on stability.
(I must admit, I did grin when “Lord” Sugar found himself being taken to court by the kind of people he breeds!!)
It is high time for a breath of fresh air in our government (and someone daring to kick the whining anti-smokers out!!!)
But I did notice that some of these rabid anti-smokers are close to succumbing to a coronary,
Closer than they might want to believe, Brigitte.
Mummy scans reveal heart disease plagued our ancestors BEFORE the emergence of junk food and cigarettes
“Dr Thompson said he was surprised to see hardened arteries even in people like the ancient Aleutians who were presumed to have a healthy lifestyle as hunter-gatherers.
‘I think it’s fair to say people should feel less guilty about getting heart disease in modern times,’ he said. ‘We may have oversold the idea that a healthy lifestyle can completely eliminate your risk.’
“I think it’s fair to say people should feel less guilty about getting heart disease in modern times”
Whoever said that they should feel guilty in the first place?
“Dr Frank Ruehli of the University of Zurich, who runs the Swiss Mummy Project, said it was clear atherosclerosis was notably present in antiquity and agreed there might be a genetic predisposition to the disease.
‘Humans seem to have a particular vulnerability (to heart disease) and it will be interesting to see what genes are involved,’ he said. Dr Ruehli was not connected to the study.”
Talking of “guilty”, look who it is!
Previously on the Fenland Citizen -
“Dr Mike Knapton, Associate Medical Director at the BHF, said: “These figures reveal the emotional burden smokers endure by feeling guilty about the impact their addiction has on family life and their finances.”
and
“Dr Mike Knapton, Associate Medical Director for the BHF, said: “Every year more than 100,000 smokers die because of their addiction. ”
on this new discovery
“Dr Mike Knapton, associate medical director at the British Heart Foundation, said calcified arteries could also be caused by other ailments including endocrine disorders and that it was impossible to tell from the CT scans if the types of calcium deposits in the mummies were the kind that would have sparked a heart attack or stroke.
‘It’s a fascinating study but I’m not sure we can say atherosclerosis is an inevitable part of aging,’ he said, citing the numerous studies that have showed strong links between lifestyle factors and heart disease.”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2291454/Mummy-scans-reveal-heart-disease-plagued-ancestors-BEFORE-emergence-junk-food-cigarettes.html
Loved that last comment, exactly how I feel despite my experience with lung cancer, doing fine and still smoking! I have been lucky, none of my friends have turned rabidly anti probably because of out age we know most of it is junk science by doctors, among others, of all people. I too am astonished that Landlords didn’t fight being compelled to enforce a law, since when was that their responsibility? and since when did the Government have the right to tell private pubs, clubs and restaurants what to do in their own promises? sometimes I am glad I am getting old.
Cherie, you wrote, “I too am astonished that Landlords didn’t fight being compelled to enforce a law, since when was that their responsibility? ”
VERY true, and true for bar staff as well. I talk about this a lot on the boards: the government does NOT have the right to demand impressed involuntary servitude in the US except in time of war. Yet that is what it is doing when it demands that workers act as unpaid, untrained, uninsured, unempowered, and unarmed Citizen Vigilante Enforcers of the smoking ban laws.
This is actually, to the best of my knowledge, the ONE legal area we have had real success in when it comes to fighting bans in courts. Virtually every case I know of that has been brought on other grounds has failed, but we HAVE won some on the enforcement grounds: most of the laws out there do NOT directly try to enslave people: they simply depend on people ASSUMING that they have to act as slaves.
- MJM